文字实录：密歇根州联邦参议员候选人阿卜杜勒·埃尔赛义德做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南直面国家》节目，2026年9月13日
2026-09-13T10:03:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是民主党籍密歇根州联邦参议员候选人阿卜杜勒·埃尔赛义德的采访实录，该采访于2026年9月13日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南直面国家》节目中播出。
魏佳·江： 接下来我们连线密歇根州民主党联邦参议员候选人阿卜杜勒·埃尔赛义德医生。他将在密歇根州安阿伯市参与本次节目。早上好，埃尔赛义德医生。欢迎来到《直面国家》。
阿卜杜勒·埃尔赛义德： 早上好，魏佳。感谢邀请我来。
魏佳·江： 我确实想和你聊聊人工智能，但我们先谈谈共和党全国代表大会吧，你是会上的焦点人物之一。数位发言者都提到了你，从总统、副总统、你的对手迈克·罗杰斯，到众议院议长迈克·约翰逊。他是这么说的。
[开始播放录音]
议长约翰逊： 我们清楚曼达尼家族和埃尔赛义德家族是什么样的人，但摇摆选区的民主党人嘴上说一套，转头就和他们惧怕的社会主义者联手投票。这才是危险所在。正是他们把野蛮人放进了国门。
[结束播放录音]
魏佳·江： 共和党人如此关注你，你怎么看？
埃尔赛义德医生： 我得说，如今白宫里坐着的才是那个“野蛮人”，我们现在正亲眼见证其带来的后果。共和党全国代表大会上根本没提这些议题：汽油价格、食品杂货价格、这些荒谬的关税，还有和加拿大的贸易争端——这让密歇根普通家庭每年平均多支出5600美元。他们也不提伊朗的战争。还有在美国看不上病这件事。所以，他们只会把矛头指向我，谈论我，拿我的名字做文章，拿我们的信仰做文章。说到底，他们这么做就是为了让你不去注意，你正被白宫里的那个“野蛮人”和一系列不符合你利益、却符合他利益的公共政策一点点盘剥。
魏佳·江： 不少共和党人还提到你和哈森·皮克一同竞选，而皮克以发表煽动性言论著称。你的对手迈克·罗杰斯称他是你的竞选搭档。你目前和皮克的关系如何？
埃尔赛义德医生： 我得说，我不知道迈克·罗杰斯有没有竞选搭档，但竞选美国参议员根本不需要搭档。我参选是为了代表我所在州的民众。这也是为什么，当他在达拉斯说我在底特律的时候，达拉斯根本不在密歇根州。我敢肯定他在达拉斯拿到了所有密歇根州的选票。他之所以跑去达拉斯，唯一的原因就是他不敢违抗总统，总统让他怎么做，他就会乖乖照做。他不敢评论关税，不敢谈论伊朗战争推高了汽油价格，都是同一个道理。所以他们想把这场竞选变成关于加利福尼亚一名流媒体主播的闹剧。而我想谈论的是密歇根州的民生问题，他们没法谈这个，因为推高物价的正是他们的政策。所以，他们可以继续转移注意力，没关系。看看这对他们到底管不管用。但说到底，民众很难无视这位总统——尤其是这位想在“特朗普狂欢节”上为自己站台、还强迫所有共和党候选人前来效忠的总统。祝他们好运。
魏佳·江： 密歇根州有不少犹太选民担心你和皮克的关系。你曾谴责反犹太主义，但没有直接批评他的言论。为什么不呢？
埃尔赛义德医生： 魏佳，恕我直言，这已经是你第三次追问加利福尼亚一名Twitch流媒体主播的事了。我本周在密歇根州举办了四场活动，你猜什么没被提到？加利福尼亚的流媒体主播。你猜什么被提到了？食品杂货价格、民众看不上病、人们对空气质量和水质的担忧。我不想和大家讨论加利福尼亚的流媒体主播，因为他们不会推高汽油和食品价格。我更想聊聊关税政策和我们本不该发动的贸易战，聊聊和伊朗的热战，聊聊我们本该现在就讨论的人工智能。让我们来谈谈真正影响民众的议题，而不是被总统指示我们该讨论的内容带偏节奏。他们的全套把戏就是挑起文化战争，好让我们不去注意这位总统已经赚了22亿美元，他的家族赚得更多。密歇根的普通家庭怎么样？你们能不能负担得起基本生活必需品？你们能不能不用背负医疗债务就能看上病？这些才是民众在讨论的话题，才是我想讨论的话题。所以，当人们连汽油和食品杂货都买不起的时候，我实在没兴趣聊什么Twitch流媒体主播，抱歉了。
魏佳·江： 明白了，医生。但共和党已经把这件事当成攻击你的一大把柄，所以我想给你澄清的机会。不过我们先暂时跳过这个话题。你经常谈到物价问题，你竞选的核心主张之一就是推进“全民医保”计划，你也多次提到这一点。但推行这项计划的资金从哪里来？
埃尔赛义德医生： 目前，我们的经济中有大约五分之一的资金流向医疗领域。这些钱本来就出自我们的口袋，最后却进了制药公司、药品公司、保险公司和大型医院的CEO们的腰包。这就是资金的去向。在“全民医保”计划下，我们整体的支出会大幅减少，而且这些钱不会再流入企业CEO的腰包，而是真正用于支付我们的医疗费用。现在，美国全国的医疗债务总额高达2250亿美元——抱歉，是总计2250亿美元——这比美国一半州的国内生产总值还要高。“全民医保”计划能让我们为所有人提供从摇篮到坟墓的医疗保险，不用再担心26岁时、换工作时、失业时、结婚或离婚时、年满65岁时会失去保险——在美国，有太多方式会让你失去保险。而且整体支出会比现在更低。在我看来这是一笔好买卖。唯一的输家，就是那些在低效的医疗体系中赚得数千万美元、还把大量民众挡在医保门外的企业CEO们。
魏佳·江： 那纳税人呢？他们担心自己会因为这项计划面临加税，不得不帮忙买单。他们真的会加税吗？
埃尔赛义德医生： 听着，我主张对亿万富翁征收公平份额的财富税。没错，如果你是美国的亿万富翁，你大概应该担心一下。但对我们大多数人来说，我们每两周或四周拿到W-2工资时，政府先扣税，然后最先拿走钱的是保险公司。想象一下不用再付给他们钱，想象一下支付更少的费用，就能拿到你已经付钱购买的医疗保险，不用再担心支付共付额或免赔额。想象一下不用再受医保网络限制，能自由选择任何一位医生看病。“全民医保”计划能让我们摆脱数百万美国人仅因生病就会陷入的深深焦虑——这就是我追求的目标。我认为，我们需要站出来对抗那些告诉我们“不能拥有”、“不该争取”的企业。
魏佳·江： 无论在这个议题还是其他议题上，如果你当选，你都必须和共和党人合作才能推动法案通过。你认为你能和共和党中的哪些人合作？
埃尔赛义德医生： 这样说吧，我接触过很多共和党人，他们都说：“没错，唐纳德·特朗普现任政府的这套做法，对谁都没好处。”比如乔希·霍利。我和他不可能在所有问题上都达成一致，但他似乎对工会在推动亲工会立法方面的意义很感兴趣。他似乎也认同，通过“全民医保”保障所有人的医疗保健，能让很多人摆脱当前的医疗困境。所以我期待能和他展开对话。但更广泛地说，这不仅仅是一位参议员和其他99位参议员之间的对话，更是我们所有人和选举我们的3.5亿民众之间的对话。我相信说服的力量——也许我这么想有点过时了，但这就是我来参加你们节目的原因，也是我去福克斯新闻和杰西·沃特斯对话的原因，也是我和哈森·皮克对话、向他的300万听众传递观点的原因。因为我相信，只要你坚信自己的理念并愿意为之辩护，就会有很多人也认同这些理念。所以，我期待和我所在州的民众，坦率地说，和全国的民众展开对话，聊聊如果我们能摆脱政治中的企业束缚、消除金钱对政治的影响、把钱放进民众口袋、通过“全民医保”计划，我们能拥有怎样的未来。
魏佳·江： 本周最受关注的议题之一当然是人工智能。你周五曾表示，人工智能是“我们这个时代的生存危机”，让你夜不能寐。你提出了一项将人工智能公司转为公共信托组织的提案。能谈谈这项提案将如何解决当前关于人工智能发展速度和安全性的争论吗？
埃尔赛义德医生： 你刚刚采访了Anthropic公司的首席执行官达里奥·阿莫代伊，他一直在深入思考这个问题。事实上，他也在疑惑，为什么我们要把这场将是我们这个时代最重大的技术转型交给大型企业去推进，而我们都清楚这里面存在很多实实在在的风险。正是因为这场——要么是人为制造、要么是被夸大的——竞赛，技术发展的速度已经超过了安全保障的速度。如果我们能建立公共监督机制，让至少50%的公共信托公司成员由民选或任命产生，那么这些公司的行动会更关注公共利益，而不是少数亿万富翁的私人利益。这就是我们提案的核心。这样既能让最优秀的技术创新继续推进，又能确保设置安全护栏。但这只是我们计划的一部分。我们还认为需要成立一个专门负责人工智能安全的公共机构，并且要划定人工智能的“禁区”。人工智能不应该剥夺你的医保，不应该拒绝给你工作，不应该解雇你，不应该操控武器。有些事情我们绝对不应该用人工智能来做，我们需要集体决定建立公共监督机制，确保所有这项技术不是为了少数人的利益而开发，损害大多数人的福祉。你也提到了，那个Hugging Face事件，几款AI跳出沙箱并入侵网站——这应该让我们所有人都脊背发凉。我们需要行动起来，而且现在就要行动。所以，我们也呼吁暂停所有前沿人工智能研究，直到我们能确保这项研究的安全性。
魏佳·江： 好的，埃尔赛义德医生。我们今天的采访就到这里。非常感谢你今天早上抽出时间。《直面国家》节目一分钟后继续播出，请不要走开。
Transcript: Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Sept. 13, 2026
2026-09-13T10:03:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Michigan Senate candidate Abdul El-Sayed, a Democrat, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Sept. 13, 2026.
WEIJIA JIANG: We go now to Michigan’s Democratic nominee for Senate, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. He joins us from Ann Arbor, Michigan. Good morning, Dr. El-Sayed. Welcome to Face the Nation.
ABDUL EL-SAYED : Good morning, Weija. Thanks for having me.
WEIJIA JIANG: So, I do want to ask you about AI, but let’s talk first about the RNC convention because you were a main character. Several speakers mentioned you. Everyone from the president, the vice president, your opponent Mike Rogers, to the Speaker of the House Mike Johnson. Here’s what he said.
[START SOUND ON TAPE]
SPEAKER JOHNSON: We know who the Mamdanis and the El-Sayeds are, but it’s the Democrats in the swing seats who say one thing and then join forces and vote with the socialists that they’re afraid of. That is the dangerous part. They’re the ones who have let the barbarians inside the gate.
[END SOUND ON TAPE]
WEIJIA JIANG: What do you make of Republicans focusing so much attention on you?
DR. EL-SAYED: Well, I’ll tell you this: the barbarian is in the White House, and we’re seeing the consequences of that right now. You know, it was not a subject at all of the RNC? the gas prices, grocery prices, these ridiculous tariffs, and this war with Canada that’s raising our prices an average $5,600 a year for the average Michigan family. The war in Iran- didn’t want to talk about any of it. The fact that you can’t see a doctor in the United States. So, they’re going to point to me. They’re going to talk about me. They’re going to point to my name. They’re going to point to our faith. And at the end of the day, they’re doing that so that you don’t pay attention to the fact that you are being nickled and dimed by the barbarian in the White House and by a set of public policies that are not in your interest, but in his.
WEIJIA JIANG: Well, several Republicans did continue to mention your campaigning with Hasan Piker, who is known for making incendiary remarks. Your opponent, Mike Rogers, calls him your running mate. What is your current relationship with Piker?
DR. EL-SAYED: I’ll tell you this, I don’t know if Mike Rogers has a running mate, but when you run for U.S. Senate, you don’t actually have one. I’m actually running to represent the people in my state, which is why while he was in Dallas saying that I was in Detroit. Dallas is not in Michigan. I’m sure he won all of the Michigan votes in Dallas. Now the only reason he went to Dallas is because he cannot break with the president, and when the president tells him to do something to jump, he’s going to say how high. It’s the same reason he won’t comment on the tariffs. It’s the same reason he won’t talk about gas prices being driven up by this war in Iran. So, they want to make this about a streamer in California. I want to make this about affordability in Michigan, and they can’t talk about it because it’s their policies that are driving them up. So yes, they can continue to distract. That’s fine. Let’s see how well that goes for them. But at the end of the day, it’s very hard to ignore a president, especially one who wants to host himself at Trump-a-Palooza and forces all of the Republican candidates to come and kiss the ring. So good luck with that.
WEIJIA JIANG: Well, there are Jewish voters in your state who are concerned about your relationship with Piker. You have condemned anti-Semitism but not called out his rhetoric directly. Why not?
DR. EL-SAYED: Weija, with all due respect, this is the third time you’ve asked about a Twitch streamer in California. I’ve done four events in Michigan this week. You know what didn’t come up? Twitch streamers in California. You know what did come up? Grocery prices, the fact that people can’t see a doctor, the worry that they have about the quality of air and water. I’m not interested in having a conversation about streamers in California because they are not raising the prices of gas and groceries. I’m more interested in having conversation about tariff policies and trade wars we shouldn’t be fighting, about hot wars with Iran, about AI, which I know we were supposed to talk about right now. So let’s actually talk about the issues that are affecting people instead of getting distracted by whatever the president says we should be talking about. Their whole game is to make us fight culture wars, so that we don’t pay attention to the fact that the president has made $2.2 billion. His family has made even more. How about your family in Michigan? How about your ability to afford the basic things? How about the ability to believe that you could see a doctor without having to potentially fall into medical debt? Those are the conversations that people are having. Those are the conversations I’m interested in having. So yeah, I’m not all that interested in having a conversation about a Twitch streamer, forgive me, when people can’t afford their gas and their groceries.
WEIJIA JIANG: Understood, doctor, but Republicans have made it a big attack on you, so I wanted to give you the chance to clarify. But we’ll leave it there for now. You do talk a lot about prices. One of your central campaign messages is that you want to pass Medicare for all. You talk about it a lot, but where’s the money going to come from to do that?
DR. EL-SAYED: Well, right now in our economy, we spend about a fifth of the whole economy on healthcare. It’s already coming out of our back pockets, and it’s going into the back pockets of CEOs of pharmaceutical companies and drug companies and insurance companies and big hospitals. That’s where it’s coming from. That’s where it’s going. Under Medicare For All, instead, we would be paying a lot less overall. And instead of going into the back pockets of CEOs of corporations, it would actually be going to pay for our healthcare. Right now, as a country, we have an average of $225 billion- excuse me, a total of $225 billion in medical debt- that is more than the GDP of half the states in this country. Medicare For All would allow us to actually provide every single person cradle-to-grave insurance without having to worry about losing it if they turn 26, if they get a job, lose a job, get married, get divorced, turn 65- all ways you can lose your insurance in this country without having to pay as much as they overall pay right now. That seems to me like to be a great deal. The only losers, well, the CEOs who are making tens of millions of dollars right now on an inefficient system that is locking a lot of people out.
WEIJIA JIANG: And what about taxpayers who are worried that, you know, they’re going to have to help pay for this with a hike in their taxes? Will they?
DR. EL-SAYED: Look, I’m looking for billionaires to pay their fair share by taxing their wealth. Yeah, so if you’re a billionaire in this country, you probably should be worried. But for most of us, when we get paid in a W-2 every two weeks or four weeks, after the government takes taxes, you know who eats first? It’s the insurance company that eats first. Imagine not having to pay that. Imagine having to pay less and knowing that that health insurance that you paid for is going to be there for you without having to worry about paying a copay or a deductible, the money you paid to get the health insurance you thought you already paid for. Imagine the- the notion of not having to have them pick who you can see through a network, but instead being able to see any doctor you choose. Medicare For All would free us from the deep anxiety that millions of Americans face just because they get sick- that’s what I’m looking for, and I think it’s going to take us- yes, standing up to the corporations who tell us what we cannot have and should not fight for.
WEIJIA JIANG: And on this issue and every other one, if you’re elected, you’re going to have to work with Republicans to get anything done. Who do you think you can work with in the GOP?
DR. EL-SAYED: So, look, I’ve heard from a lot of Republicans who say, “Yeah, well, you know, this current situation under Donald Trump is not really working for anybody.” You look at like, somebody like Josh Hawley. Now he and I are not going to agree on everything, but he seems curious about what unions could mean if we were fighting for pro-union legislation. He seems curious about what it could look like to buy a lot of folks out of the current predicament when it comes to healthcare, by guaranteeing healthcare through Medicare For All, so I’m looking forward to building that conversation. But more broadly, it’s not just about the conversation that any one senator has with the 99 other senators. It’s about the conversation that we all have with the 350 million people who elect all of us. And I believe in persuasion. Maybe I’m old-fashioned that way, but it’s the reason that I come on your show. It’s the reason I went and talked to Jesse Watters on Fox. It’s a reason that I spoke to Hasan Piker to talk to the 3 million people who listen to him, because I think that when you believe in your ideas and you’re willing to defend them, that there are a lot of people who might believe in them too. And so, I’m looking forward to having the conversation with folks across my state and, frankly, across the country about what we could have if we were willing to get past the corporate chokehold in our politics, to get money out of politics, to put money in your pocket, and pass Medicare For All.
WEIJIA JIANG: And a huge conversation this week, of course, has been artificial intelligence. You said on Friday that it is the “existential crisis” of our moment that keeps you up at night. You do have a proposal to turn AI companies into public trust organizations. Can you talk about how that’s going to address this current debate over AI pacing and safety.
DR. EL-SAYED: Well, you just spoke to the CEO of Anthropic, Dario Amodei, who’s been thinking a lot about this problem. He, in fact- he wonders why it is that we leave it to big corporations to pursue what is going to be the biggest technological transition of our time, when in fact, we know that there’s a lot of real risks here. And because of this- this race that either is made up or- or inflated, you’re seeing the pace of technological development outpace the pace of safety. If you had public oversight over this, in the form of democratically elected or appointed members of at least 50% of all of these public trust corporations, you would imagine that they’d act far more focused on what is in the public good rather than what is for the private benefit of a few billionaires. And that’s what we’re proposing. This would allow the best of technological innovation to continue forward while making sure that there are guardrails. But this isn’t the only part of our plan. We also think that we need a public agency focused directly on the safety of AI, and there need to be AI no-go’s. AI shouldn’t be able to deny you healthcare. It shouldn’t be able to deny you a job. It shouldn’t be able to fire you. It shouldn’t be able to fire a weapon. There are things that we should not be using AI to do, and we collectively have to decide that we need public oversight so that all of this technology is not being created for the interests of a few against the well-being of a many. And, you know, I don’t have to bring this up. I know you already spoke about this, but that Hugging Face situation where you had a few AIs hop their sandbox and then hack a website- that should send a shutter down all of our spines. We need to act, and we need to act now. So, we’ve also been calling for a pause on any of this frontier AI research until we can assure that this is being done safely.
WEIJIA JIANG: All right, Dr. El-Sayed, we’ll have to leave it there but thank you so much for your time this morning. Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.