2026-07-15T16:32:38.962Z / 美国有线电视新闻网（CNN）
据凯瑟琳·吕姆勒在闭门听证会开场陈述中透露，这位前奥巴马白宫法律顾问对与已故定罪性犯罪者杰弗里·爱泼斯坦的交往表示后悔，如今她认为这是个错误。吕姆勒的发言准备稿已提供给CNN。
“如果我当时就知道爱泼斯坦的真实面目，我绝不会同意与他初次会面。与他打交道是个错误，我对此感到后悔，”吕姆勒说道，“但如今很多人认为，既然我们现在了解了爱泼斯坦的一切，那么在他2019年被起诉前与他有过交往的所有人，当时肯定都清楚他的底细。就我而言，这种假设完全错误。”
共和党主导的众议院监督委员会主动传唤吕姆勒进行闭门作证，作为国会对爱泼斯坦相关调查的一部分，此前诸多新闻报道都对她与这名声名狼藉的金融家的关联进行了审查。CNN的KFILE专栏报道详细披露了她与爱泼斯坦关系的程度，包括她曾是协助他在晚年规避法律和声誉风险的少数顾问之一。
吕姆勒在开场陈述中并未具体说明她曾如何帮助爱泼斯坦维护声誉，但她确实表示：“尽管我不是他的律师，但他确实时不时向我寻求建议，就像很多人那样。在这种背景下，我与他保持着友好关系，我们的交往属于日常往来——随意、非正式，有时甚至有点不拘小节。”她还强调，爱泼斯坦从未是她的客户。
她表示自己首次与爱泼斯坦见面是在2014年，并解释了自己是如何了解到爱泼斯坦2008年认罪的相关情况的，包括他承认招揽未成年妓女及其他罪名，以及她为何仍继续与他往来。
“爱泼斯坦告诉我，虽然他招揽的妓女中有少数几名未成年，但他当时并不知情。爱泼斯坦似乎对导致他定罪的行为相当坦诚——至少他让我这么觉得。他对自己的行为表达了懊悔、尴尬和遗憾，称自己是花钱与他以为年满18岁的女性发生性关系，”吕姆勒在开场陈述中说道。
“尽管他已被定罪，但在我与他见面时，他已经与商界、学术界、政界和艺术界的众多知名专业人士建立了活跃的人脉关系。考虑到我律师业务的性质，我经常与有问题或存在争议的人士打交道，包括那些面临刑事指控或其他不当行为指控的人，”她补充道，同时表示自己“从未认可或原谅”爱泼斯坦认罪的行为。
吕姆勒称爱泼斯坦是个“高明的骗子”，还表示自己“从未看到任何证据表明爱泼斯坦存在持续的犯罪行为或任何不当行为”。
她表示，“如果我看到或听到任何迹象表明他在虐待女性或女童，我会立即向执法部门举报他。”
在听证会开始前，吕姆勒告诉CNN：“我会回答他们认为有助于调查的任何问题。所以，再次强调，我期待今天与委员会成员见面。”
众议院监督委员会主席詹姆斯·科默在听证会开始前表示：“她是一位非常有影响力的人物，可能在协助他重塑形象方面参与颇深，而我认为这反而让他更难被追究责任。这非常令人担忧。我们想知道她当时了解什么，我们有很多关于他们关系程度的问题。”
委员会资深民主党议员众议员罗伯特·加西亚附和道：“她继续与爱泼斯坦往来、提供建议，显然是他的朋友，而且实际上是他人生最后阶段持续沟通的对象之一，我认为这一点非常重要。我们从一开始就表明，我们不在乎某人是共和党人还是民主党人，也不在乎双方的关系如何，我们想要真相和答案，我认为今天我们全天都能得到这些。”
听证会进行期间，加西亚质疑吕姆勒的可信度，并表示共和党允许她在未宣誓的情况下作证“存在问题”。
“我很难相信她在向委员会提供证词时完全诚实。当然， transcript（听证会记录）会公开，”加西亚告诉记者。
今年2月，吕姆勒宣布将于6月30日前辞去高盛集团首席法律官一职，此前司法部公布爱泼斯坦相关文件引发了连锁反应。
但民主党人一直在就高盛首席执行官大卫·所罗门据称在吕姆勒宣布辞职数月后仍试图挽留这位银行首席法律顾问一事向其施压。
司法部公布的数百万页爱泼斯坦相关文件，为吕姆勒与爱泼斯坦之间的关系提供了新的细节。
CNN审查的数百封邮件中，除了讨论爱泼斯坦的法律纠纷和声誉危机外，还有两人之间更多的私人通信，包括计划前往爱泼斯坦私人岛屿的行程，以及他送给她的礼物。
在他们的部分往来邮件中，吕姆勒会讨论自己生活中的私事，对他们的“友谊”表示感谢，并在邮件结尾附上“xo”和“xoxo”的亲昵落款。
“媒体对我与爱泼斯坦的邮件往来以及他送给我的礼物给予了大量关注。我与爱泼斯坦的很多邮件都被断章取义，或者并非有些人猜测或暗示的那样。话虽如此，鉴于我现在对他的了解，我真希望自己从未与他打过交道，更不用说给他发邮件了，”吕姆勒在开场陈述中说道。
针对礼物一事，吕姆勒表示：“我没有索要过这些礼物，也不需要它们，也不认为它们有多私人或重要。我大方地接受了，当时觉得没什么理由拒绝。但这些礼物对我来说并不重要，有些我也拒绝了。无论如何，他送我的任何东西都没有让我对他的态度与原本有所不同。”
司法部1月30日公布的一批文件显示，吕姆勒曾就爱泼斯坦的原告提起的诉讼向其提供建议，并协调应对媒体，包括策划与一名受害者的电视网络访谈，但该访谈最终未播出。
根据文件内容，吕姆勒曾一度询问前往爱泼斯坦私人岛屿的行程。
2017年1月，吕姆勒询问爱泼斯坦，自己在加勒比海旅行期间能否“一日游”前往该岛。同年晚些时候，飓风伊尔玛严重损毁该岛屿后，吕姆勒还曾考虑前往该岛协助爱泼斯坦清理。
高盛发言人此前曾表示，吕姆勒从未去过该岛。
吕姆勒于2014年离开奥巴马白宫，随后加入盛德国际律师事务所，担任其白领辩护部门负责人。该律所此前曾告诉CNN，爱泼斯坦从未是其客户。2020年，吕姆勒加入高盛集团，后来晋升为集团首席法律官。
去年12月，她在给CNN的一份声明中表示：“我在盛德国际律师事务所担任白领辩护部门负责人期间，曾以职业身份认识杰弗里·爱泼斯坦，他是一个业务转介来源。我没有代理过他，也没有从他那里获得过报酬。我只是爱泼斯坦非正式寻求建议的众多律师之一。”
由于吕姆勒是自愿作证，她无需宣誓作证。不过，听证会开始时会提醒她，向国会作出虚假陈述可能会面临刑事起诉。吕姆勒是正在进行的爱泼斯坦相关调查中第18位接受委员会采访的证人。
Former Obama White House attorney says ‘it was a mistake’ to deal with Epstein and she regrets it
2026-07-15T16:32:38.962Z / CNN
Former Obama White House counsel Kathy Ruemmler said she regrets interacting with the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein and believes now it was a mistake, according to opening remarks she delivered to House committee investigators as part of a closed-door interview.
“If I knew then what I know now about who Epstein really was, I never would have accepted an initial meeting with him. It was a mistake to deal with him, and I regret it,” Ruemmler said, according to prepared remarks provided to CNN. “But many people assume that given everything we know now about Epstein, everyone who dealt with him before his 2019 indictment must have known everything then. In my case, that assumption is completely wrong.”
Ruemmler was called to testify voluntarily by the Republican-led House Oversight Committee for a closed-door interview as part of the congressional probe into Epstein after numerous news stories scrutinized her ties to the disgraced financier. Reporting from CNN’s KFILE detailed the extent of her relationship with Epstein, including that she was among a small group of advisers to help him ward off legal and reputational risk during the final years of his life.
Ruemmler did not specifically address how she sought to help Epstein protect his reputation in her opening remarks but did say, “even though I wasn’t his lawyer, he sought my advice from time to time, as many people do. I was friendly with him in that context, and I dealt with him in my ordinary course — casually, informally, and sometimes irreverently.” She also said that Epstein was never her client.
She said that she first met Epstein in 2014 — and explained how she came to learn about how Epstein pled guilty in 2008 to charges that included the solicitation of a minor for prostitution along with other offenses and why she continued to engage with him.
“Epstein told me that, while a small number of the women he had solicited for prostitution turned out to be under the age of consent, he had not known that any of them were underage. Epstein appeared to be quite open about the conduct leading to his conviction, or so he led me to believe. He expressed remorse, embarrassment, and regret for his conduct, which he described as paying money for sex to women he believed to be over the age of 18,” Ruemmler said in her opening statement.
“Notwithstanding his conviction, by the time I met him, he had active relationships with an extensive group of respected professionals in business, academia, politics, and the arts. And given the nature of my law practice, I routinely dealt with compromised or controversial people, including those facing criminal or other allegations of wrongdoing,” she said, while adding that she “at no time” endorsed or excused the conduct to which Epstein pled guilty.
Ruemmler called Epstein a “masterful liar” — and also said that she “did not see any evidence of ongoing criminal conduct or misconduct of any kind by Epstein.”
She said that, “if I had seen or heard any evidence suggesting that he was abusing women or girls, I would have immediately reported him to law enforcement.”
Ahead of the interview, Ruemmler told CNN, “I will answer any questions that they think will help their inquiry. So, again, I’m looking forward to meeting with the committee members today.”
House Oversight Chair James Comer said prior to the start of the interview, “she’s a very powerful person that was probably more involved in working with him to rehabilitate his image, which I would argue has made it more difficult for him to be held accountable. So, very concerning. We want to know what she knew and we have a lot of questions about the extent of their relationship.”
The top Democrat on the panel, Rep. Robert Garcia, echoed, “the fact that she continued to engage, give advice, was clearly a friend, and in fact was one of the folks that he was talking to consistently in the last phase of his life I think is really significant. We’ve said from day one that we don’t care if someone is a Republican or a Democrat or what the relationship is, we want truth and answers, and I think that’s what we’ll get throughout the day today.”
As the interview was ongoing, Garcia questioned Ruemmler’s credibility and said it was “problematic” for Republicans to allow her to testify without forcing her to be under oath.
“I think it is difficult to see how she is being completely truthful in there with the answers that she is giving the committee. And the transcript of course will come out,” Garcia told reporters
In February, Ruemmler announced she would resign by June 30 from her job as chief legal officer at Goldman Sachs amid fallout from the Justice Department’s release of Epstein documents.
But Democrats have pressed Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon over his reported effort to retain the bank’s top lawyer months after she announced she would resign.
The Justice Department’s release of millions of pages of Epstein documents provided fresh details about the relationship between the Ruemmler and Epstein.
Amid the hundreds of email exchanges reviewed by CNN that discuss Epstein’s legal battles and reputational problems, there are other more personal communications between the two, including plans for a proposed trip to Epstein’s island and gifts he’d given her.
In some of their back-and-forth messages, Ruemmler discussed personal matters in her life, expressed gratitude for their “friendship,” and concluded her messages with “xo” and “xoxo.”
“There has been much media attention around my email communications with Epstein and gifts that he gave me. Many of my emails with Epstein have been taken out of context or do not mean what some have speculated or suggested. With that said, given what I now know about him, I wish I had never dealt with him at all, much less emailed with him,” Ruemmler said in her opening remarks.
On the gifts specifically, Ruemmer said, “I didn’t ask for them, didn’t need them, and didn’t view them as particularly personal or consequential. I accepted them graciously, as I saw no reason not to. But the gifts weren’t important to me, and I declined to accept some of them. In any event, nothing he gave me caused me to deal with him any differently than I otherwise would have.”
A batch of documents released by the Justice Department on January 30 showed how Ruemmler advised Epstein on lawsuits brought by his accusers and coordinated responses to journalists, including regarding a proposed network TV interview with a victim that never aired.
According to the files, Ruemmler at one point inquired about taking a trip to Epstein’s private island.
In January 2017, Ruemmler asked Epstein whether she could take a “day trip” to the island while she was traveling in the Caribbean. Later that year, after Hurricane Irma severely damaged the island, Ruemmler mused about traveling to the island to help Epstein clean up.
A Goldman Sachs spokesperson previously said Ruemmler never visited the island.
Ruemmler left the Obama White House in 2014 and went to work for Latham & Watkins as head of its white-collar defense group. The firm previously told CNN that Epstein was never a client. In 2020, Ruemmler joined Goldman Sachs and was later promoted to become the firm’s chief legal officer.
In a statement to CNN in December, she said, “I knew Jeffrey Epstein in a professional capacity when I served as head of the white collar defense group at Latham & Watkins, and he was a business referral source. I did not represent him and was not compensated by him. I was one of a number of lawyers Epstein informally reached out to for advice.”
Given that Ruemmler is appearing voluntarily, she will not be sworn in under oath. She will be reminded at the start of the interview, however, that making false statements to Congress is subject to criminal prosecution. Ruemmler is the panel’s 18th witness to appear for an interview as apart of the ongoing Epstein probe.
