transcript：宾夕法尼亚州州长乔什·夏皮罗于2026年11月1日做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南共面》节目
2026年11月1日 美国东部时间上午10:30 / CBS新闻
以下为民主党籍宾夕法尼亚州州长乔什·夏皮罗访谈的完整文字记录，部分内容于2026年11月1日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南共面》节目中播出。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：好的，州长，您正在竞选连任，同时也在为一些民主党人参选国会争取支持。根据我们CBS新闻的民调，57%的潜在选民认为民主党尚未提出明确的胜选后施政纲领。那么民主党人究竟为何参选？还是说这仅仅是为了反对特朗普总统？
乔什·夏皮罗州长：嗯，对我而言，这绝不是反对特朗普。我是以“实干民主党人”（即Get Stuff Done民主党人）的身份参选的。我认为，宾夕法尼亚州民众所看到的是，我作为州长会倾听民意，深入国会，切实为宾夕法尼亚州人民办实事、出成效。我正在全力推动宾夕法尼亚州的国会 challengers （挑战者）候选人当选——他们的竞选纲领和我一致，秉持常识原则，确保民众能获得医疗保障，确保华盛顿特区真正建立问责机制，防止腐败侵吞民众的钱袋、充实华府少数人的腰包。这只是宾夕法尼亚州国会挑战者所秉持的两类理念。我走遍全州，民众看到的是一位不仅懂胜利、更懂为民众谋福祉的民主党人。这正是这些候选人的竞选核心。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您曾表示有望拿下四个国会席位，您对此的乐观程度如何？
夏皮罗州长：这么说吧，目前宾夕法尼亚州可能有多达五个有竞争力的国会选区。当然，四个选区受到最多关注。我认为我们至少在其中三个选区占优。但我从不把这些民调当回事。一切都悬而未决，最重要的是脚踏实地：像我现在在巴士上做的这样，奔走各地，和民众交流，让他们知晓利害关系——不仅要重新选出州长，我们还能有效遏制特朗普在华盛顿的混乱、残酷与腐败——只要民众出来投票支持他们的国会候选人。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但即便他们当选，未来两年仍需与共和党总统合作。如果他们能当选的话。
夏皮罗州长：没错。但我们会对特朗普的腐败形成制约，有望动用实际筹码，推动削减医疗补助计划（Medicaid）和补充营养援助计划（SNAP）的政策倒退，确保华盛顿真正建立责任与问责机制——这是共和党此前全面掌控国会时从未做到的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我想问问您本州的选举管理情况。国土安全部今年早些时候声称，本州可能有多达14576名非公民已注册投票。联邦政府是否向您提供了足够的信息——
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玛格丽特·布伦南：国土安全部称，宾夕法尼亚州可能有多达14576名非公民已注册投票。他们是否提供了支撑这一说法的证据？您自己的调查结果如何？
夏皮罗州长：嗯，“可能”是关键词。我们一收到联邦政府的信息，就立即回应：“如果你们有疑似非法选民的信息，请提供给我们，因为我们不希望他们在宾夕法尼亚州投票。”我对此非常严肃。我曾是本州的首席执法官，办理过选举欺诈案件。我不允许任何不具备合法投票资格的人投票——
玛格丽特·布伦南：他们提供证据了吗？
夏皮罗州长：当然，我们回应特朗普政府后，他们没有提供任何证据。那只是一则为虚假叙事博眼球的新闻稿。我当选州长后的第一项任命就是州务卿，此人负责本州选举管理。我选择的是共和党人阿尔·施密特，尽管我是民主党人，因为我认为选举管理应保持中立。阿尔·施密特在选举管理生涯中，根除腐败的成果远超特朗普政府的任何举措。我们对此极为重视，而特朗普政府从未提供过任何证据证明我们的选民名册中存在不合格人员。如果他们有，我需要，我们会立即采取行动。
玛格丽特·布伦南：CBS最近的一项调查发现，宾夕法尼亚州是国土安全部上门排查的州之一。他们敲门询问居民的移民身份。您能告诉我们国土安全部在本州的行动情况吗？他们作为州长与您进行过协调吗？
夏皮罗州长：没有。我要明确一点：宾夕法尼亚州警方不会替国土安全部工作，也不会替移民和海关执法局（ICE）工作。我们不询问民众的移民身份。事实上，ICE曾试图强行在宾州建立两个大型拘留中心，一个在伯克县，一个在斯库尔基尔县，我对此进行了反击并取得胜利，把这些拘留中心赶出了宾夕法尼亚州。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你们发现了多少名非公民选民？
夏皮罗州长：他们声称有上千人。于是我们说：“好，请告知我们他们的身份，以便核实身份。”但他们从未透露，所以我们无法核实他们声称识别出的人员。我可以告诉大家，我们有非常严格的保障措施，由施密特部长牵头，持续确保选民名册上的人员是具备合法投票资格的。如果我们发现某人不符合资格，比如某个县在选民注册时出现失误，我们会立即处理。我们会与检察官合作，确保这些人无法投票。正如我所说，我曾是本州的首席执法官，办理过选举欺诈案件。案件数量很少，其中有些是共和党人，有些是民主党人。没有一起案件影响选举结果。但我们绝不允许此类事件在本州发生。我想对特朗普政府说：与其给我发新闻稿，不如给我提供实际证据、真实数据，我们会立即审查。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您最近接受《费城问讯报》社论委员会采访时表示，特朗普总统及其盟友将试图阻止选票计票。
夏皮罗州长：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您还预计，如果共和党失去多数席位，约翰逊议长将采取措施拖延新议员就职。您现在提出这些担忧是出于什么原因？您认为这会削弱民众对选举的信心吗？
夏皮罗州长：嗯，恕我直言，我只是在回答他们关于是否会采取措施破坏选举的问题。我给出回应是有原因的。因为我之前经历过特朗普政府的类似操作。2020年，我当时担任总检察长，特朗普在宾夕法尼亚州输掉选举后，试图破坏选票计票。他和他的帮凶共起诉我43次，试图推翻部分宾夕法尼亚州选民的选票。甚至我的对手也起诉要求推翻巴克斯县的选票。我赢得了所有案件，43战全胜；特朗普则43战全败。所以我们已做好准备，以防他们此次故技重施。事实上，早在一年前，当特朗普开始暗示要再次采取这种手段时，我们就组建了一个特别工作组。在法庭上我们已做好准备，以防他们试图剥夺投票权。最近，我们有了更多证据：总统签署的那份虚假行政令试图让宾夕法尼亚州乃至全美国民众无法邮寄投票。我起诉了他，胜诉了，我们维护了投票权。所以，这A)是对问题的回应；B)基于与特朗普打交道的经历——他总是试图破坏本州的投票权。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我想聊聊您。宾夕法尼亚州巴克斯县的共和党众议员布莱恩·菲茨帕特里克称您是好人、朋友，您聪慧且有能力，他认为您会参选总统。刚到此地的特拉华州民主党参议员克里斯·库恩斯说，如果您赢得宾夕法尼亚州，就赢得了整个总统大选。这对您作为候选人是有力的论证。一位共和党人、一位民主党人都在猜测，他们的猜测错了吗？
夏皮罗州长：嗯，我不会关注这些猜测。我专注于中期选举，这是我唯一在意的事。我们今天聊的不仅是我的连任，还有我正全力推动四名民主党人参选国会，以扭转权力格局，从迈克·约翰逊手中夺回议长职位，全力在哈里斯堡实现全面掌控——自1992年以来还从未实现过。我们的州参议院选区有些是不公正划分的，但我希望这次能成功。我的精力只集中在中期选举，既要谋求连任，更要对总统形成制约，遏制他的混乱、残酷与腐败，证明在宾夕法尼亚州，以“实干民主党人”的纲领参选，能在所有层级的选举中获胜。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您连任已几近成功。您说专注中期选举，但您打算多久后决定参选总统？
夏皮罗州长：我感谢您、布莱恩、克里斯的信任，但现实是——
玛格丽特·布伦南：我只是在说民调。
夏皮罗州长：我总是以领先20个百分点的姿态竞选，我全速推进。我在巴士上待了十天，走遍全州。昨天我还去了一个上次大选特朗普得票率约80%的选区。我不会把任何事视为理所当然。我在争取民主党、共和党、无党派人士的支持。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但您规划的议程需要一些时间才能实现。
夏皮罗州长：我不太明白您的问题。
玛格丽特·布伦南：如果您现在成功连任州长，想要完成所有施政目标，是否需要完整任期才能实现？
夏皮罗州长：我会专注于兑现对本州人民的承诺，继续倾听、观察、行动，为宾夕法尼亚州民众创造福祉。
玛格丽特·布伦南：像我这样的人会继续问您的。
夏皮罗州长：欢迎提问。我很荣幸参议员和众议员会问您这些问题。我唯一专注的是在宾夕法尼亚州赢得所有层级的选举。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您最近接受社论委员会采访时说，过去九个月有六人被起诉，他们对您和您的家人发出恐吓威胁或族裔歧视威胁。您说这让您倍感压力。
夏皮罗州长：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您是指什么？
夏皮罗州长：一年半前，我和家人与社区一同庆祝逾越节家宴。有人闯入州长官邸，投掷燃烧弹，毁坏了官邸约三分之一的区域，还拿着一把金属锤子在官邸内狂奔，声称找到我后要把我打死。他现在被判入狱50年。但此后，有更多人威胁我和妻子、家人，威胁的理由是我的信仰。这确实让人不安，知道有人试图伤害你。但我也会因此更坚定地做我该做的事，不让坏人得逞，不让那些——
玛格丽特·布伦南：您看看现在的竞选活动，俄亥俄州、密歇根州的言论极为恶毒。
夏皮罗州长：很危险，既恶毒又危险。
玛格丽特·布伦南：您如何消除这种情况？如何降低其影响？
夏皮罗州长：我认为要以身作则，正如我们在此尝试做的，正如我在此尝试做的。面对总统展现的残酷，努力重拾友善。我与对手、总统和其他人有巨大分歧，但我认为残酷不是解决办法。这会让所有人更不安全。但我对刚才的问题的回应是，这让我倍感压力，但这控制不了我。事实上，我和家人在决定竞选连任前就达成一致：不能让坏人得逞，我们要继续前进。必须挺身而出反对仇恨，以身作则，努力为国家带来一些体面。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我想稍后聊聊宾夕法尼亚州的政治，但先快速问问阿拉斯加的情况。司法部已向据信与《纽约时报》报道的民主党为阿拉斯加参议院选举提名候选人分流选票相关的人员发出传票。我知道您一定关注了此事。民主党候选人称她对该计划毫不知情。您认为这对选举诚信有何影响？您认为这会削弱民主党作为保护选举诚信的政党的论点吗？
夏皮罗州长：显然我更关注宾夕法尼亚州的事而非阿拉斯加，但特朗普的所作所为与他在宾夕法尼亚州的手段并无太大差异——预先判断结果、提起一堆诉讼，在选民表达意见前压制其声音，他已表明若结果不如他意就会诉诸法庭。因为特朗普不喜欢有人与他想法不同、投票不同、观点不同，他就会诉诸法庭压制这些声音。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但就《纽约时报》的报道而言，一位民主党人对我说：“或许不违法，但看起来不地道。”您觉得“不地道”吗？如果您在本州遇到这种情况，您作为总检察长会提起诉讼吗？
夏皮罗州长：恕我直言，您是在问两个不同的问题：这里有没有违法行为，还是说有什么看起来像政治操作？
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
夏皮罗州长：我掌握的信息不足以对此发表意见，但我明确知道，唐纳德·特朗普试图利用司法部压制与他意见相左的人，压制那些在投票时可能选择不同道路的人的声音。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但我无法想象您会容忍民主党一方的这种手段。
夏皮罗州长：我没有参与其中，我专注于宾夕法尼亚州的竞选。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我们聊聊宾夕法尼亚州。本州正经历美国三十年来最严重的麻疹疫情之一。本月早些时候，本郡一所学校因确诊麻疹病例停课一天——
夏皮罗州长：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：——麻疹传染性极强。您如何控制疫情？
夏皮罗州长：宾夕法尼亚州已有五人死于麻疹，1500人感染麻疹——这种病2000年已在美国消除，如今卷土重来，主要是因为疫苗错误信息和反疫苗奇诡阴谋论者RFK散播的虚假信息，而特朗普现已任命他负责美国医疗体系。在宾夕法尼亚州，我确保民众能获得信息，疫苗可供使用，接种疫苗是个人选择。但关键在于，他们要从实际医疗提供者、真正的医学专家那里获取信息，而不是从RFK那里，他可以解释麻疹疫苗即MMR疫苗高效，是抵御麻疹疫情的最佳方式。要明确一点，RFK多年来散播的谬论与他如今作为美国首席公共卫生官员的行为，与本州和全国民众感染病例之间存在直接关联。如何控制疫情——
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
夏皮罗州长：现在回答您的问题第二部分：我们在本州所做的，是携手所有医疗合作伙伴，为本州民众提供准确医疗信息，确保他们能接种疫苗，鼓励他们接种。这里有一些数据：通常，我们的卫生部与医疗合作伙伴每月为约25000人接种疫苗。麻疹疫情爆发后，在我的鼓励和卫生部长博根博士的推动下，我们现在每月接种55000剂疫苗。宾夕法尼亚州民众展现了我们最擅长的一面：团结互助、信任科学——而RFK不断试图破坏这一点。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：您9月与卫生与公众服务部部长肯尼迪发生了相当公开的冲突。你们就本州麻疹问题的原因产生了争执。美国疾控中心（CDC）现已确认三例与麻疹相关的死亡病例，少于贵州卫生部门报告的五例——
夏皮罗州长：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：——您刚刚接受了CDC的帮助。您处理此事的方式是否存在遗憾？
夏皮罗州长：没有，恕我直言，这不准确。首先，RFK否认宾夕法尼亚州有人死亡，简直是无视本州遇难家庭。
玛格丽特·布伦南：他是对麻疹导致的死亡提出异议吗？
夏皮罗州长：不，他首先说，恕我直言，他首先声称我编造了死亡病例，说我撒谎，而我们没有撒谎。我们知道这些人死亡，不仅本州卫生部门确认，独立法医也确认。然后他们试图在死亡人数上玩花样，您正确指出他只承认三例死亡。关于与CDC合作，麻疹疫情爆发前，我们的州卫生部门已有CDC人员派驻，我们确实接受了他们要求的额外一人。
玛格丽特·布伦南：一位情报官员，对吗？
夏皮罗州长：是的，一人协助追踪。顺便说一下，他们不是派1000人来接种。只是多了一人，我们欣然接受，而且CDC在疫情前就已派驻在此。RFK声称我们撒谎，是因为这不符合他的叙事。他去了疫情中心兰开斯特，说：“不需要疫苗，喝点鸡汤就好。”
玛格丽特·布伦南：您是说在他担任卫生与公众服务部部长之前？
夏皮罗州长：这家伙不适合担任美国公共卫生负责人。他不是健康专家，不是医生，还宣扬编造的——
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夏皮罗州长：听着，他没有资格担任美国首席公共卫生官员。他不是健康专家，不断破坏宾夕法尼亚州乃至全国的公共卫生。他不配领导。特朗普应该罢免他，这有助于我们更好地战胜疾病——这种病2000年已在美国消除，如今可悲地卷土重来，正是因为他散播的疫苗错误信息和虚假信息运动。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但您是否担心，这如今成为政治斗争的程度，或医疗问题的政治化，会让您更难说服那些——
夏皮罗州长：明确说——
玛格丽特·布伦南：——犹豫不决的民众接种疫苗？
夏皮罗州长：一点也不。RFK把这件事政治化了。他在玩弄这件事。事实上，如果看我们在宾夕法尼亚州所做的工作，效果是显著的。我们从每月接种约25000人增加到55000人，因为民众信任宾夕法尼亚州的真正公共卫生专家，而非RFK先生散播的谬论。
Transcript: Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Nov. 1, 2026
November 1, 2026 / 10:30 AM EST / CBS News
The following is the full transcript of the interview with Pennsylvania Gov. Josh Shapiro, a Democrat, a portion of which aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Nov. 1, 2026.
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MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. So, Governor, you’re campaigning for re-election, and you’re also trying to help some of these Democrats get elected to Congress. According to our CBS polling, 57% of likely voters believe Democrats have not offered a clear plan for what they would do if they do win control of Congress. What is it that Democrats are running for, or is it simply in opposition to President Trump?
GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO: Well, certainly for me, it’s not about opposition to Trump. I’m running as a GSD Democrat—a Get Stuff Done Democrat. I think what people have seen in my leadership here in Pennsylvania is someone who listens, who goes back to the Capitol, and then delivers, executes for the people of Pennsylvania, and I’m working hard to elect these members of or these challengers to the members of Congress here in Pennsylvania who run on a similar platform, common sense things, making sure people have access to health care, making sure that there is actually accountability in Washington D.C. so that the corruption doesn’t take money out of people’s pockets here and enrich the folks in D.C. Those are just two examples of the kinds of things I see from our challengers here in Congress. And as I crisscross this Commonwealth, what they’re seeing from me is a Democrat who understands how to win, but more importantly, understands how to deliver for them. And that’s what these candidates are running on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How optimistic are you that you’re going to be able to take four seats I think you’ve said?
GOV. SHAPIRO: I mean, look. Right now, it seems like there might even be five competitive congressional districts here in Pennsylvania. Obviously, four have received the most attention. I think we’re seemingly ahead in at least three of them. But look, I never pay much attention to these polls. I think it’s all a jump ball, and the most important thing is to do what we’re doing on this bus: show up everywhere, talk to people, let them know what’s at stake, how important it is to not just re-elect their governor, but that we can finally have a check on Donald Trump’s chaos, cruelty, and corruption in Washington D.C. If they get out and vote for their candidate for Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And they’re still going to have to work with a Republican president for those next two years when they get there. If they get there.
GOV. SHAPIRO: Yeah. But there’ll be a check on his corruption, and hopefully have real leverage to roll back the Medicaid cuts, to roll back the SNAP cuts, to make sure that there’s real responsibility and accountability in Washington D.C. Something we have not had when Republicans have had a trifecta there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about what’s going to happen here in this state in terms of administering the election. Homeland Security claimed earlier this year that as many as 14,576 non-citizens could be registered to vote here. Has the federal government provided enough information to you–
[STOP DOWN]
MARGARET BRENNAN: So Homeland Security said that in this state there are as many as 14,576 non citizens that could be registered to vote in Pennsylvania. Did they provide information to back up that claim? And what did your own investigation find?
GOV. SHAPIRO: Yeah, could is the operative word. As soon as we received that from the federal government, we immediately responded and said, “Look, if you have information of illegal voters who are on our rolls, we want that information because we don’t want them casting a ballot here in Pennsylvania.” I’m very serious about it. Look, I’m the former chief law enforcement officer of this Commonwealth. I have prosecuted election fraud cases. I don’t want anyone voting who’s not a legal eligible voter–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did they back that up?
GOV. SHAPIRO: And of course, of course, when we responded to the Trump administration, they provided no backup. So it was a press release designed to get some attention for their false narrative. Listen, the first appointment I made when I was elected governor was the Secretary of State. That’s the person that administers elections here in the state. A Republican named Al Schmidt. I chose him, even though I’m a Democrat, because I think the administration of elections should be nonpartisan. Al Schmidt, in his career of running elections, has done more to root out corruption than anything that’s ever been done in the Trump administration. We take that very, very seriously, and the Trump administration has never provided a shred of evidence to suggest that there are people on our rolls who are ineligible. If they have it, I want it, and we will act on it immediately.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A recent CBS investigation found Pennsylvania was one of the states where Homeland Security has been going door to door. They’ve been knocking on doors and asking about the immigration status of people who live there. What can you tell us about what DHS has been doing here? And did the administration coordinate with you as governor in any way?
GOV. SHAPIRO: No. And I want to make very very clearly the Pennsylvania State Police does not do DHS’s work for them. Does not do ICE’s work for them. We do not ask immigration status. In fact, when ICE came here and tried to bully their way into building two massive detention centers here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, one in Berks County, one in Schuylkill County, I fought back and won and drove those detention centers out of Pennsylvania.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How many non-citizen voters did you find?
GOV. SHAPIRO: Well, what they said was that there were, whatever the number was, over a thousand people. So we said, great, tell us who they are, so we can check their status. They never told us who they were, and so it is impossible for us to be able to check the people that they claim to have identified. I will tell you, we’ve got very, very strict guardrails in place, led by Secretary Schmidt, constantly making sure that the people who are on our voter rolls are legal, eligible voters. And if we find that someone is not, if a mistake was made in a county where someone was registering, as an example, we immediately get on that. We work with prosecutors to ensure that they are not in a position to cast a ballot. As I said, I was the chief law enforcement officer of this Commonwealth. I prosecuted election fraud. It was a handful of cases. By the way, some were Republican, some were Democrat. None of it impacted any elections. But still, we can’t allow that to happen here in our Commonwealth. And what I would ask of the Trump administration is, instead of sending me a press release, send me actual evidence, actual data, and we will review it promptly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you did speak recently with Philadelphia Inquirer’s editorial board, and you told them that you think President Trump and his allies are going to try and stop votes from being counted.
GOV SHAPIRO: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You also said you expect Speaker Johnson to make efforts to delay seating new members if Republicans lose the majority. Why are you raising these concerns now? And do you think at all that you might be undermining faith?
GOV. SHAPIRO: Yeah. Well, respectfully, I was answering their question as to whether or not I thought the Trump administration would take steps to try and undermine our elections. So just to offer some context to that, and I did issue those answers, and I’ll tell you why. Because I have lived through this before with the Trump administration. Back in 2020, I was the attorney general, and Trump lost the election here in Pennsylvania and tried to undermine the counting of the vote. In fact, he and his enablers sued me 43 different times to try and throw out the votes of certain Pennsylvanians. Heck, even my opponent went to court to throw out the votes of people in Bucks County. I won every single one of those cases. Went 43 and 0, Trump went 0 and 43. And so we are prepared should they try to do that again this time. In fact, we put together a task force more than a year ago when Trump began to hint at the idea that he would once again take that tack. So we are prepared in the courtroom. Should they go forward and try and undermine the right to vote. Now, more recently, we’ve seen further evidence of this president trying to undermine the right to vote in signing that bogus executive order, trying to make it so people here in Pennsylvania and across America couldn’t vote by mail. I sued him. I won, and we protected the right to vote. So again, this was A) in response to a question, and B) based on a history of dealing with a guy who is constantly trying to undermine the right to vote here in our Commonwealth.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I want to ask about you. Brian Fitzpatrick, who represents Bucks County, Republican here in Pennsylvania, describes you as a good man, a friend. He said you’re smart, competent. He said he thinks you’re going to run for president. And Senator Chris Coons, who was just here earlier, of Delaware said a Democrat. If you win Pennsylvania, you win the whole presidency. It’s a good argument for you as a candidate. It’s a Republican, It’s a Democrat speculating. Are they wrong to speculate like that?
GOV. SHAPIRO: Well, I wouldn’t be focused on speculating. I’d be focused on these midterms, which is all I’m focused on. You know, we talked here today not just about my re-election, but the fact that I’m working hard to elect four more Democrats to Congress to tilt the balance of power, take the gavel away from Mike Johnson, working hard to win a trifecta here in Harrisburg, something that hasn’t been done since 1992. We have some gerrymandered state senate districts, but I’m hopeful that we’re going to be able to get that done this time. So my focus has only been on these midterms, both getting myself reelected, but importantly providing a check on this president, a check to his his chaos, his cruelty, and his corruption, and to show that here in Pennsylvania, when you run on a GSD Democratic platform, that you can win up and down the ballot.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you are close to winning re-election. You said you’re focused on the midterms, but how soon after you’re going to make a call on your own presidential run?
GOV. SHAPIRO: I appreciate the confidence you have, or Brian has, or Chris has, but the reality is—
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m just talking about the polls.
GOV. SHAPIRO: I always run like I’m 20 points behind. I’m running through the tape. I’m on this bus for 10 days, crisscrossing this Commonwealth. I showed up in a district yesterday that I think Donald Trump won with about 80% of the vote in the last presidential election. I take absolutely nothing for granted. I’m competing everywhere for the support of certainly Democrats, but Republicans and Independents as well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you’re laying out an agenda that would require some time to achieve.
GOV. SHAPIRO: I’m not sure I follow your question.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If you win re-election in this position now to be governor, to get everything done you want to get done, do you have to serve the whole term?
GOV. SHAPIRO: Well, I’m going to focus on getting done what I’ve pledged to get done here, and continuing to listen, see, and do, and make a lot of good things happen for the people of Pennsylvania as their governor.
MARGARET BRENNAN: People like me are just going to continue to ask you.
GOV. SHAPIRO: Well, and you’re welcome to ask. And look, I’m humbled that you would ask that question. I’m humbled by the responses the senator and the representative gave you. But the only thing I’m focused on is here in Pennsylvania, winning up and down the ballot.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So when you spoke to the editorial board recently, you said six people were recently charged in the past nine months. They reported as making terroristic threats or ethnic intimidation against you or your family. You’ve said it has—it’s weighed on you.
GOV. SHAPIRO: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What did you mean by that?
GOV. SHAPIRO: You know, a year and a half ago, my family and I finished celebrating our Passover Seder with the community. And you know someone broke into the governor’s residence, threw Molotov cocktails throughout the home, destroyed about a third of the residence, and was running through the residence with a metal hammer that he said he was going to use to beat me to death when he found me. And he’s behind bars now for the next 50 years. But since that time, even more people have threatened me and my wife, our family. Threatened us based on how I worship, and it weighs on you, certainly, to know that there are people out there trying to do you harm. But I would also tell you, it motivates me to keep doing what I do to not let the bad guys win, to not let those—
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, you look at this campaign right now, some of the rhetoric in states out now- Ohio, in Michigan, it’s downright hateful.
GOV. SHAPIRO: It’s dangerous. It’s dangerous. It’s hateful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, how do you get rid of that? How do you lower that?
GOV. SHAPIRO: I think what you do is- is try and lead by example, as we all here- as we are trying to do here, as I am trying to do here. Try and bring back kindness in the face of the cruelty that we see from this president. I’ve got profound differences from the person I’m running against, from the president and others, but I don’t think engaging in cruelty is the answer. I think it makes everyone less safe. But what I was saying in response to your question a moment ago, it weighs on me, but- but it doesn’t control me. In fact, my family and I met before, you know, we decided to run for re-election, and everybody agreed, can’t let the bad guys win. We’ve got to keep going forward. You got to stand up against the hate. You got to lead by example, and you got to try and bring some decency back to this country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to get to some of the politics here in Pennsylvania in a moment, but I want to ask you quickly about what is happening in Alaska. The Justice Department has now issued subpoenas to people believed to be connected to what the New York Times reported was the Democratic effort to stack Alaska’s Senate ballot with candidates to siphon off votes. I know you must have been following this story. The Democratic candidate said she had no knowledge of the scheme. What do you think this does to election integrity, and do you think that this undermines Democrats’ argument that they are the party trying to protect election integrity?
GOV. SHAPIRO: I’ve been focused, obviously, a lot more on Pennsylvania than Alaska, but what we’re seeing from Trump is not super different from what we have seen from him here in Pennsylvania- trying to prejudge an outcome, file a bunch of lawsuits to silence the voices of the voters before they’ve had their say, and he’s already showing that he is going to go to court should the result not be what he wants. Because what Trump doesn’t like is when someone thinks different than you, or votes different than you, or has a different perspective than you- he tries to go to court to silence those voices.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But in terms of what has been reported by the New York Times, as one Democrat said to me, “may not be illegal, but it looks like dirty pool.” Does it look like “dirty pool” to you? I mean, if you saw something like that in this state, you were an attorney general.
GOV. SHAPIRO: I- yeah, well–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Would you try to prosecute?
GOV. SHAPIRO: You’re asking- respectfully, I think you’re asking two different questions. Is there something illegal here, or is there something that seems sort of political?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
GOV. SHAPIRO: I don’t know enough to be able to weigh in on this, but what I do know is that- to weigh in with any new information- I want to be clear, happy to answer your question. But what is clear to me is that Donald Trump tries to use the Justice Department to silence people who disagree with him, to try and silence the voices of those who might make a different choice in the ballot box than he would want.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But I can’t imagine you condone these kind of tactics on the Democratic side.
GOV. SHAPIRO: I’m not engaged in it, I’m focused on these races here in Pennsylvania.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let’s talk about Pennsylvania. This state is in the midst of one of the worst measles outbreaks the United States has seen in three decades. In this county, a school here had to close for a day earlier this month–
GOV. SHAPIRO: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –because of a confirmed case of measles. This is highly transmissible. How do you get this under control?
GOV. SHAPIRO: We’ve got five deaths in Pennsylvania. 1,500 people sickened by measles, a disease that was eliminated in the year 2000 in the United States of America, and it’s come roaring back, largely because of vaccine misinformation and disinformation promoted by quack conspiracy theorist RFK, who Donald Trump has now put in charge of our nation’s healthcare system. Now, here in Pennsylvania, I believe in making sure people have access to the information, that there is vaccines available to them, it is a personal choice if they wish to get it. But what is critically important is that they hear from an actual medical provider, an actual medical expert, not RFK, who can explain that the MMR vaccine, that’s the measles vaccine, is highly effective, and the best way to protect yourself against this measles outbreak. Make no mistake; you can draw a straight line between the nonsense that RFK has been spewing for years and now his work as the leading public health official in this country, and people getting sick here in my state and across the country. How do we get control of it–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
GOV. SHAPIRO: –now, it’s the second part of your question. You do what we’re doing here in the Commonwealth, bringing all of our healthcare partners together, and working to provide actual medical information to people in our Commonwealth, and making sure they get access to the vaccine, and encouraging them to take it. Now, here’s some data for you. Typically, our Department of Health, working with our healthcare partners, would vaccinate around 25,000 people a month. Since the measles outbreak and my encouragement, and Dr. Bogen, our health secretary’s encouragement to get vaccinated, we’re now up to 55,000 vaccines being administered a month. So, Pennsylvanians are doing what we do best: coming together, looking out for our neighbors, and trusting science- something RFK continually tries to undermine.
[STOP DOWN]
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you clashed with HHS Secretary Kennedy in September, pretty publicly. You had a back and forth over what happened, what was driving the measles problem in the state. The CDC now recognizes three measles-associated deaths. That’s fewer than the five–
GOV. SHAPIRO: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: –that your state health department has seen. You just accepted CDC help. Do you have any regrets about how you handled this?
GOV. SHAPIRO: No, and respectfully, that’s not accurate. First, RFK denied that anyone died here in Pennsylvania. Literally poked his finger in the eye of these families here in Pennsylvania.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he disputed deaths due to the measles or–
GOV. SHAPIRO: No, first he said- respectfully, first he said I fabricated it. First he said I lied about it, which we didn’t. We know these people died. It’s been confirmed not just by our state health department, but also by independent coroners. Then they tried to play games with the number of deaths, and you correctly point out that he’s only acknowledged three of those deaths. As it relates to working with CDC, we’ve had people embedded here from CDC in our state Department of Health before the measles outbreak, and we did accept one additional person that they were asking us to accept.
MARGARET BRENNAN: An Intelligence Service Officer, right?
GOV. SHAPIRO: Yeah, one- one person to help with tracking. By the way, this isn’t like they’re sending 1000 people here to vaccinate folks. It was one additional person, and we gladly accepted them and CDC had been here for, you know, again prior to this outbreak. The fact that RFK claims that we’re lying about this, he’s doing that because it doesn’t fit his narrative. Remember, he’s the guy who went to Lancaster, the epicenter of this outbreak, and said, “You don’t need the vaccine. Just take a bunch of chicken soup, and you’ll be fine.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re talking about before he was HHS Secretary?
GOV. SHAPIRO: This guy- this guy is not fit to be the head of public health in this country. He’s not a health expert. He’s not a doctor, and he preaches fabricated–
[STOP DOWN]
GOV. SHAPIRO: Look, he is not qualified to serve as America’s top public health official. He is not a health expert, and he is constantly undermining public health here in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and across the country. He’s unfit to lead. Donald Trump should remove him, and that will help all of us do a better job of beating this disease that was eliminated in the United States back in the year 2000, but has come roaring back sadly because of his vaccine misinformation and disinformation campaign.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you worry at all that the degree to which this has now become a political fight or the politicization of health will make it that much harder–
GOV. SHAPIRO: To be clear–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –for you to persuade people to go get the shot, that are so–
GOV. SHAPIRO: Not at all. Not at all. RFK politicized this. RFK is playing games with this. And in fact, if you look at the work we’re doing here in Pennsylvania, it’s working. We went from vaccinating about 25,000 people a month to over 55,000 people a month because people trust actual public health experts here in Pennsylvania, not the nonsense that is being spewed by RFK Jr.