录音文本：众议员杰森·克劳做客《玛格丽特·布伦南直面全国》节目，2026年9月6日
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2026-09-06T12:08:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
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以下是科罗拉多州民主党众议员杰森·克劳的采访实录，该采访于2026年9月6日在《玛格丽特·布伦南直面全国》节目中播出。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我们现在邀请到了科罗拉多州民主党众议员杰森·克劳。很高兴你能亲临演播室。
众议员杰森·克劳： 谢谢。感谢邀请我来。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 据哥伦比亚广播公司报道，美国军方数十名最高级官员接受了测谎测试，这是赫格斯塞特国务卿下令开展的大规模泄密调查的一部分。其中包括作战司令部指挥官。调查人员正在寻找泄露有关美国精密武器储备高度机密细节的人。这种情况极为罕见。
众议员克劳： 没错。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 这种做法合适吗？国会是否被告知了任何调查结果？
众议员克劳： 我没有收到任何相关简报。我是军事委员会和情报委员会的资深成员。我们没有收到任何信息，目前只有公开报道。而且——当然，制止泄密、保护机密信息确实非常重要。我始终会支持这一点。但问题在于——皮特·赫格斯塞特在此过程中制造的整体氛围。他已经解雇了80多名将军和海军上将，整个军事指挥链中最顶层的10%人员被解职。女性晋升名单的数量达到了25年来的最低点，他制造了一种恐惧氛围。他排挤记者，打压媒体。这是他制造恐惧、压制五角大楼信息流出计划的一部分。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 测谎测试本是常规流程，但据我所知，此次涉事人数之多、级别之高都非同寻常。这似乎也印证了有关美国弹药短缺问题的报道。
众议员克劳： 没错。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 目前相关情况如何？
众议员克劳： 因为他们——他们不想让民众知道实情。这正是问题的关键。他们不想让民众了解实际发生的情况。这就是为什么他们解雇了《星条旗报》的编辑，顺便提一句，这份独立报纸自1861年就已存在——1861年，它在南北战争期间创立，旨在为我们的服役人员提供独立的媒体发声渠道，让人们了解他们的经历。这是他们不愿让包括国会议员在内的任何人了解真实情况的整体趋势的一部分。弹药已经耗尽。储备量非常低，这与唐纳德·特朗普希望我们相信的情况截然相反。这类精密弹药并非唾手可得，需要很长时间才能完成储备。是他们发动了这场战争。总统在没有任何计划、没有任何战略的情况下发动了这场战争。我的意思是，我刚听了您之前的嘉宾赖特国务卿谈论数据和石油桶数量，那——那都只是战术层面的讨论，对吧？这些都是战术决策。这里根本没有战略可言。没有退路，没有长期计划来告诉我们如何抽身、如何稳定市场、如何降低美国民众的生活成本。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 说到该地区，我们关注的另一个问题是目前驻扎在该地区的5万名美军人员。美国海军第五舰队总部设在巴林。海军作战部长本周举行了一场市政厅会议。一名水兵问道，“我什么时候才能回去取回我的所有装备？”他回答说，“我们短期内不会重返那里。我只想坦诚地告诉大家这一点。”我们是否可以据此理解为美国正在从海湾地区撤军或缩减人员部署？
众议员克劳： 长期以来，我一直认为我们总体上应该削减在中东的驻军。我们需要摆脱中东无休止的冲突。顺便说一句，唐纳德·特朗普曾以此为竞选纲领。他清楚美国民众已经厌倦了无休止的冲突循环和中东的泥潭。过去——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 但即使是从海军第五舰队——你也希望从那个基地撤军吗？
众议员克劳： 不，不是从那个特定基地撤军。我指的是整体情况。您提到的5万名服役人员，自2001年以来，我们在该地区一直驻扎着5万多名军人。这个——这个数字——非常高。这是为了支持我们在该地区无休止的冲突，对吧？我们可以降低这个数字。我们可以为纳税人节省资金。我们可以变得更强大、更灵活，但这里更核心的问题是，唐纳德·特朗普延续了25年的无休止冲突，这场冲突让我们付出了3万亿至5万亿美元的代价，数千名美国人丧生，数十万人的人生从此被改变。对吧？我们已经在该地区征战了25年。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 自9·11事件以来。
众议员克劳： 自9·11事件以来。这一切都不合理。这并非不可避免。这根本没必要发生，对吧？所以，现在正在发生的事情——又是一次这种冲突的延续，这种情况必须停止。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我了解到赫格斯塞特国务卿本周也向陆军发出了延长部队部署期限的信件，我们的记者埃莉·沃森获取了其中部分信件。让我问问您上周在《直面全国》节目中提到的一则报道。阿富汗指挥官阿利扎伊将军已在美国获得庇护，但目前因国籍问题受到政府限制。他无法出国，也无法将妻子和三个孩子接到美国，尽管他已经获得了庇护。像您这样的退伍军人正在做些什么，来帮助那些在阿富汗战争中与我们并肩作战的人团聚？
众议员克劳： 我们有一个两党团体正在全力努力，将特殊移民签证计划恢复到特朗普政府上台并彻底瓦解——彻底摧毁该计划之前的规模，他们削减了签证数量，切断了负责兑现这一承诺的所有机构、部门和人员的资金。我们正在寻求临时保护身份，并想方设法推动参众两院投票通过相关法案，因为我们对这些与我们并肩作战的人负有道义责任。我和其他从伊拉克和阿富汗战争归来的人，如果没有那些与我们并肩作战、共同服役、对我们的战争行动至关重要的伊拉克人和阿富汗人，我们可能今天都无法站在这里。而且，这不仅仅是道义责任，这也是国家安全的当务之急。如果我们想在世界某个地方开展行动、保障美国安全，我们无一例外都会与当地部队和地面人员合作。如果这些人认为我们不会为他们撑腰，他们将来就不会与我们合作，也不会保护美国士兵的安全。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 让我谈谈一点民主党政治的话题，因为你一直活跃在竞选一线，我了解到你是民主党国会竞选委员会的战场联合主席。你本周将前往达拉斯参加共和党中期代表大会。此行的目的是什么？你在那里打算达成什么实际目标？
众议员克劳： 没错，我们要去问责他们。这就是我们要做的事情。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 当他们——
众议员克劳： 我们要——要揭露——揭露他们的——他们的——谎言，对吧？他们届时会站出来——我知道事情会如何发展。我的意思是，到目前为止，一切都太 predictable（可预见）了。他们会站出来，吹嘘一切都好极了。这就是唐纳德·特朗普的做派。你知道，经济是A+++++。我们比以往任何时候都更加强大、更加美好。这一切都不是真的，对吧？民众正在失去农场，失去医保，负担不起基本生活开销。我们将在那里揭露他们失败的政策，以及本届政府上台已近两年的事实。从各个方面来看，各个方面，美国人的生活都变得更糟了。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 说到这一点，如果民主党试图夺回众议院、掌控国会，你们也必须说服民众，让他们相信民主党上台后会有所作为。
众议员克劳： 没错。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 总统和约翰逊议长都曾表示，如果民主党掌控国会，他们无疑会启动弹劾调查。马里兰州民主党众议员杰米·拉斯金今天上午在另一个电视台节目中表示，总统无疑犯下了可被弹劾的罪行。这就是计划吗？如果民主党获胜，民众应该期待未来两年都进行弹劾调查吗？
众议员克劳： 我们的计划是——实现问责。我对弹劾非常了解，因为我曾参与过第一次弹劾审判。我在国会任期的第一年就坐在参议院的议事席上，向那些参议员陈述理由。我直视他们的眼睛，说：“唐纳德·特朗普是——是一个危险人物。他不合格，不称职，而且——而且腐败。”尽管当时有很多预警信号，但他们并没有听我的。所以弹劾只是众多工具中的一种，我不太在意——呃，具体使用哪种工具，如果有必要，我会毫不犹豫地使用弹劾这个工具。但我们必须审视可用的手段，以及哪些手段能够带来实际成果——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错。
众议员克劳： ——实现问责。这才是我关心的。因为腐败——腐败无处不在。这是美国历史上最腐败的政府，而腐败的本质就是窃取我的选民的财富。就是从科罗拉多州民众的口袋里掏钱，
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错——
众议员克劳： ——这笔钱本应用于他们的医疗、住房和农场，却流入了唐纳德·特朗普和他的同伙的腰包。我会追查这笔钱，而且我不会为此道歉。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好吧，我得改天再问你具体的行动计划，但今天的采访就到这里吧，克劳众议员。我们很快回来。
Transcript: Rep. Jason Crow on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Sept. 6, 2026
2026-09-06T12:08:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Rep. Jason Crow, Democrat of Colorado, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Sept. 6, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by Colorado Democratic Congressman Jason Crow. It’s good to have you here in person.
REPRESENTATIVE JASON CROW: Thank you. Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So CBS is reporting that several dozen of the highest-ranking officials in the United States military were subjected to polygraph tests as part of the sweeping leak probe that Secretary Hegseth has ordered. This includes combatant commanders. They’re looking for who leaked the highly classified details about the nation’s stockpiles of sophisticated weapons. This is extremely rare.
REP. CROW: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it appropriate? Has Congress been told anything about the outcome?
REP. CROW: I haven’t been briefed anything about this. I’m a senior member of the Armed Services Committee and the Intelligence Committee. We haven’t received any information; it’s just been public reports. And- and certainly, stopping leaks and protecting classified information is really important. And I would always support that. The problem is- is the broader context that Pete Hegseth has created here. He has purged over 80 generals and admirals, the top 10% of the entire military chain of command has been purged. We are at a 25-year low for the number of women on the promotion list, and he’s created an environment of fear. He’s pushed out journalists. He’s pushed out media. This is part of his effort to create fear and to clamp down on information coming out of the Pentagon.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, polygraph tests are part of routine cadence, but from what I understand, it’s the number, it’s the rank of people here. It also seems to confirm the reporting about the problems with America’s munitions shortages.
REP. CROW: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What is the state of that?
REP. CROW: Well, because they don’t- they don’t want people to know. This is exactly the point. They don’t want people to know what’s actually happening. That’s why they fired the editor of the Stars and Stripes, an independent newspaper that’s been around since 1861 by the way- 1861, it was founded during the Civil War to be an independent media outlet for our service members, so that people would understand what they’re going through. This is the broader trend of them not wanting anybody, including members of Congress, to understand what’s going on. Munitions have been depleted. The stockpiles are very low, contrary to what Donald Trump wants us to believe. These types of precise munitions do not grow on trees. They take a long time to build up. They started this war. The president started this war without a plan, without a strategy. I mean, I just heard your prior guest, Secretary Wright, talk about numbers and barrels, and- and that’s all tactical discussion, right? These are tactical decisions. There’s no strategy here. There’s no off-ramp. There’s no longer-term plan for how we get out of this and how we normalize the markets and how we drive down prices for Americans.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Speaking of the region, one of the other things we’re looking at is the 50,000 personnel the U.S. keeps currently in the region. The Navy’s Fifth Fleet is headquartered in the country of Bahrain. The Chief of Naval Operations held a town hall this past week. A sailor asked about like, when can I go back and get all my gear, and he said, “We’re not getting back in there anytime soon. I just want to be completely honest about that.” Should we understand that as saying the U.S. is withdrawing or drawing down personnel from- from the Gulf?
REP. CROW: I- I have for a long time thought that we need to draw down our forces generally in the Middle East. We need to get out of endless conflict in the Middle East. Donald Trump campaigned on this, by the way. He knew that Americans are fed up with an endless cycle of conflict and the quagmires in the Middle East. Over the last–
MARGARET BRENNAN: But even from the Navy’s Fifth Fleet- you want to pull back from that base?
REP. CROW: No, not from that particular base. I’m talking about overall. You’d mentioned the 50,000 service members. We’ve had 50,000 plus service members in this region since 2001. That- that is- that is a high high number. That is to support our endless conflicts in the region, right? We can move that number down. We can save money for taxpayers. We can be stronger. We can be more nimble, but the broader point here is that Donald Trump has doubled down on 25 years of endless conflict that’s cost us $3 to $5 trillion, thousands of American lives, hundreds of thousands altered forever. Right? We- we have been at war in the region for 25 years now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Since 9/11.
REP. CROW: Since 9/11. That’s not okay. It’s not inevitable. That does not need to happen, right? So, what is happening now is- is- is again, a perpetuation of this conflict that has to stop.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And I understand Secretary Hegseth sent letters out to the Army this week extending troop deployments as well, and our Ellee Watson obtained some of those letters. Let me ask you about a story we shared last week on Face the Nation. General Alizai, an Afghan commander who has asylum here in America, is under current government restrictions due to his nationality. He can’t travel outside, he hasn’t been able to bring his wife and three children to this country, even though he has asylum here. What are vets like you trying to do to reunite those who fought alongside us in that Afghan war?
REP. CROW: There’s a bipartisan group of us who are- who are fighting hard to expand the Special Immigrant Visa program to what it used to be before the Trump administration came in and dismantled- entirely dismantled that program, cut the visas, defunded all of the agencies and departments and personnel that were working to keep that promise. We are pursuing temporary protective status and looking at trying to find ways to force a vote in the House and the Senate to move it forward because we have a moral obligation to these folks who fought with us. Me and others who came back after wars in Iraq and Afghanistan may not be here today if it weren’t for those Iraqis and those Afghans who fought with us, served with us, were essential to our war effort. And- and beyond a moral obligation, it’s a national security imperative. If we want to go someplace in the world and conduct operations, keep America safe, we always, without exception, work with local forces and people on the ground. Those folks will not be there for us, they will not work with us and keep American soldiers safe in the future if they don’t think we’ll have their back.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me ask you about a little bit of Democratic politics because you are out there on the front lines, battleground co-chair I understand, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee. You’re headed to Dallas this week for the Republican GOP midterm convention. What’s the purpose? What are you going to actually try to achieve while you’re there?
REP. CROW: Yeah, we’re going to hold them accountable. That’s what we’re going to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How do you hold them accountable when their–
REP. CROW: By- by calling- by calling out their- their- their lies, right? They’re going to get up there- I- I know how this is going to happen. I mean, all of this is so predictable at this point. They’re going to get up there and they’re going to talk about how great everything is. This is what Donald Trump does. You know, the- the economy is A plus plus plus. We’re hotter and better than ever. None of that is true, right? People are losing their farms. They’re losing their healthcare. They can’t afford basic costs. We- we are going to be there to call them out on their failed policies and the fact that we are now almost two years in this administration. And on every measure, every measure, Americans’ lives have gotten worse.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, on that point, if Democrats are trying to flip the House, gain control of Congress, you’ve also got to convince people you’re going to do something when you get there.
REP. CROW: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Both the President and Speaker Johnson have said if Democrats take control, they’ll undoubtedly launch impeachment inquiries. Jamie Raskin, Maryland Democrat, on another network this morning, saying the president has undoubtedly committed impeachable offenses. Is that the plan? Is that what people should be looking for if Democrats win? Two years of impeachment inquiries?
REP. CROW: The plan is- is for accountability. Now I know a lot about impeachment because I prosecuted the first impeachment trial. I sat on the floor of the Senate in my first term in Congress, and made the case to those senators. I looked in their eye and- and I said, “Donald Trump is a- is a danger. He is not qualified, he’s not competent, and- and he’s corrupt.” They didn’t listen to me then, even though there were plenty of warning signs. So impeachment is one tool of many, and I’m less concerned about, you know, the specific tools, and I won’t hesitate to use that tool if we need to. But what we have to do is look at what’s available and what’s going to deliver results–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REP. CROW: –for accountability. That’s what I’m concerned about. Because the corruption is- is boundless. This is the most corrupt administration in the history of America, and what corruption really is is stealing from my constituents. It is taking money out of the pockets of Coloradans,
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah–
REP. CROW: –money that should be used for their health care, for their homes, for their farms, and it’s going into the pockets of Donald Trump and their cronies. And I’m going to go after that money, and I’m not going to apologize for it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I’m going to have to ask you another time exactly how you plan to do that, but we’re going to leave it there for today, Congressman Crow. We’ll be right back.
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