文字实录：众议员布莱恩·菲茨帕特里克与汤姆·苏奥齐做客《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目 2026年5月17日
2026-05-17T12:37:00-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下为宾夕法尼亚州共和党众议员布莱恩·菲茨帕特里克与纽约州民主党众议员汤姆·苏奥齐的采访实录，该访谈于2026年5月17日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目中播出。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 欢迎回到《面对面》节目，我们邀请到了两党众议院问题解决核心小组联合主席，来自宾夕法尼亚州兰霍恩的共和党人布莱恩·菲茨帕特里克，以及来自纽约州皇后区的民主党人汤姆·苏奥齐。两位先生，早上好。
众议员汤姆·苏奥齐： 早上好。
众议员布莱恩·菲茨帕特里克： 早上好。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 首先想从菲茨帕特里克议员开始。据哥伦比亚广播公司估算，此次重新划分选区的最终影响是，共和党将因此多出约9个席位——更准确地说，是距离掌控众议院多数席位更近了9个席位。想必这也是总统希望看到的结果。但你们为何认为通过这种方式争取多数席位，反而对本党不利？
众议员菲茨帕特里克： 玛格丽特，这对我们国家而言是件糟糕透顶的事。选区划分不公（杰利蝾螈）是我能想到的对我们民主制度最具破坏性，哪怕不是最具破坏性的做法之一。汤姆和我对此完全持相同态度，我们整个两党问题解决核心小组也都认同这一点。我们上周就已召开会议，着手采取切实可行的措施加以反击。要知道，当前面临的挑战之一是，与选举运作方式类似，选区划线主要由州政府和州议会决定。联邦系统对此唯一能施加影响的抓手就是资金，尤其是《帮助美国投票法》中所谓的HAVA资金——该法案是在布什诉戈尔案的“悬垂选票”选举风波后通过的。我们可以将这笔资金与特定改革挂钩：各州将获得数十亿美元用于开展选举工作，而我们可以将这笔拨款与相关改革条件绑定。其中一项必须推行的改革是——顺便提一句，全美目前仅有7个州做到了这一点——设立独立的公民委员会，并辅以计算机生成的划线辅助工具，以确保我们在全国范围内拥有更公平的选区。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我理解你们的努力和初衷，但苏奥齐议员，您所在政党的领导人同样会进行选区划分操纵。正如菲茨帕特里克议员所言，你们一直在支持制止这种行为的举措，但看起来你们的议员自身也将直接受到影响。你们党团中约有45名议员可能会因重新划分选区而受影响。您曾说过这会毁掉国家，那么它究竟是如何破坏跨党派合作能力的，就像两位此刻正在做的这样？
众议员苏奥齐： 问题在于，当通过选区操纵创造出安全席位后，真正重要的选举不再是大选，而是党内初选。因此，所有政客都会迎合自己的基本盘：共和党人只对自己的支持者讲话，民主党人也只拉拢自己的选民，而非与所有选民沟通他们真正关心的议题，这种迎合无处不在。我们如今正陷入一场——这场逐底竞争，我们正打算以其人之道还治其人之身。民主党会针对共和党，共和党也会针对民主党。这对美国不利。所有安全席位的存在，会让政客们没有动力去倾听民众声音、进行跨党派合作，这对美国百害而无一利。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 刚才我表述有误，是您所在党团中有45名议员，其中超过12人可能会直接受到影响，但我理解您的核心观点，即这确实损害了跨党派合作的能力。不过菲茨帕特里克议员，我想从共和党视角问一个问题。我们刚刚见证了路易斯安那州昨晚发生的事，参议员比尔·卡西迪在三方初选中落败。你们党的领袖、总统本人，正是此次重新划分选区的推动者，他本人也直接介入了多场初选，亲自挑选候选人，还公开严厉反对卡西迪。如今他又将矛头对准了肯塔基州众议员托马斯·马西，后者曾多次投票反对总统，包括投票要求公开爱泼斯坦相关文件。这传递给共和党人的信息是不是：只要你不追随总统，就会被他搞垮？
众议员菲茨帕特里克： 玛格丽特，这正是我们需要在全美50个州推行开放初选的诸多原因之一，这也是汤姆和我共同支持的另一项举措。美国目前有超过一半的州实行封闭式初选，这意味着如果你登记为无党派选民，在半数选举中你都无权投票。我们不妨举个例子来说明这有多荒谬：你可以是一位98岁的二战老兵，曾抢滩诺曼底、拯救了文明，却在这个庆祝独立250周年的国家登记为无党派选民，而在全美半数的州，包括我们的家乡宾夕法尼亚州，只要你登记为无党派，就会被告知无权参与半数选举的投票。这简直不可理喻。玛格丽特，这不仅是一种不公，更对众议院议事产生了极具破坏性的影响。汤姆和我对此深有体会，我们称之为“投反对票、寄希望于通过”的群体。他们来到众议院议事大厅本想支持某项政策，因为他们清楚这项政策是正确的，但由于他们所在州实行封闭式初选，而仅有18%的美国人会参与初选投票，他们在议事时考虑的不是全体选民，而是那18%的初选参与者。因此，封闭式初选与你们刚才提到的选区操纵问题叠加，正严重损害我们的国家，导致众议院议事陷入僵局。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 的确，看起来二位正逆流而行。苏奥齐议员，我想先问问您的——
众议员苏奥齐： 我能不能先快速补充一句？
玛格丽特·布伦南： 当然可以，我本来也想问您的竞选情况，您先请。
众议员苏奥齐： 我想说一点。我所在的选区唐纳德·特朗普以1.9万票的优势胜出。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 是的。
众议员苏奥齐： 作为民主党人，布莱恩所在的选区则是卡玛拉·哈里斯获胜。要想在我的选区胜出，我必须倾听所有人的声音。我需要绝大多数民主党选民支持我，需要大多数无党派选民投我一票，甚至还需要一些共和党选民愿意倾听我的主张并投我一票。因此，我必须兼顾所有群体，这才是对美国有利的做法：当选民代表必须倾听全体民众的声音。而当你们通过选区操纵制造出大量安全席位后，那些身处安全席位的政客——如今国会中的大多数当选官员只需赢得党内初选即可，因为他们所在的选区要么铁定属于共和党，要么铁定属于民主党——之后便只会迎合自己的基本盘，这种做法加剧了国家分裂，再加上社交媒体、有线电视新闻，还有外国敌对势力在我们的社交平台上充斥着各种垃圾言论，情况只会更糟。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 这点我就不反驳您了，先生。回到我原本想问您的竞选相关问题。我知道，像您这样需要走出去说服选民的议员，认为民主党完全可以在民生可负担性议题上拿出有力主张。我们一直在讨论哥伦比亚广播公司的民调数据，结果显示执政党处境堪忧，但民调也显示两党都没有掌握舆论主动权，支持率差距很小：35%的受访者认为民主党表现更优，31%认为特朗普和共和党更胜一筹，还有34%的受访者表示两者都不行或不确定。双方都没能拿出令人信服的解决方案。那么，民主党要如何才能占据优势？
众议员苏奥齐： 毫无疑问，这是当前最棘手的问题。民生可负担性是美国民众最关心的头等大事，您提到的民调也印证了这一点。我们眼看着物价飞涨，原因何在？关税、俄乌战争、新建的数据中心，还有不断高企的债务。我们必须提出两党能够携手合作的政策方案。比如关税问题，总统本应提交国会审议；战争授权问题，总统也本应提交国会。让我们共同努力，真正出台解决问题的政策，让美国重回正轨：无论你是左翼进步人士还是右翼保守派，只要努力工作就能赚到足够的钱，买得起房子、供孩子上学、支付医疗保险，退休后也无需为生计发愁。我们必须回归这些基本的、核心的执政理念。别再互相指责、打文化战争了，让我们聚焦民众的生活经济问题，这样才能重建中产阶级，帮助那些渴望进入中产阶级的人群。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 但从某种程度上说，民调显示民众渴望两党之外的新方案，他们并未听到任何新意。菲茨帕特里克议员，您接着说。
众议员菲茨帕特里克： 没错，全美超过一半的民众都是 paycheck to paycheck（ paycheck to paycheck： paycheck指工资支票，paycheck to paycheck指挣的钱仅够支付日常开销，月光族），几乎每一分钱都要用来维持生计。而美国各州议会、国会山内部讨论的很多议题，并没有全天候聚焦在这一点上。当然，我们必须关注国家安全，必须关注外交政策，这些我们都得做。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错。
众议员菲茨帕特里克： 但我们不能忽视这样一个事实：一半的美国人正为家庭预算焦头烂额，这理应成为立法议程的核心驱动力。我认为，唐纳德·特朗普总统能在2024年当选，原因就在于此。佐兰·马姆达米在2025年当选也是同理。玛格丽特，我认为两党都没能抓住这个核心信息：我们必须全力以赴聚焦经济和家庭预算问题，拆解问题根源：是什么推高了能源成本？是什么推高了育儿成本？是什么推高了医疗成本？汤姆和我通过 discharge petition（ discharge petition：美国众议院的 discharge petition 是指议员发起动议，绕过委员会直接将法案提交全院表决）推动通过了一项法案，延长了保费税收抵免政策，我们在众议院促成了该法案的通过。我们正尽己所能跨越党派界限，在中间地带携手合作，聚焦民众真正关心的议题，也就是关乎家家户户的民生问题。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 说到这一点，特朗普总统告诉我的同事南希·科德斯，他支持联邦汽油税假期，也就是暂停征收汽油税。他也承认该政策仍需提交国会审议。二位议员会投票支持这项暂停征收汽油税的法案吗？
众议员苏奥齐： 我认为我们需要考虑短期应对方案。这确实是权宜之计。我们真正需要做的是，总统必须前往国会，讨论这场战争以及如何——如何推动结束战争，这才是影响油价的真正症结所在。关税才是推高民众生活成本的真正原因。请到国会来，与两党议员携手合作，让我们共同推动国家向前发展。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 菲茨帕特里克议员——
众议员菲茨帕特里克： 我来回答这个问题。我们与大量工会保持密切合作，他们对联邦汽油税假期表达了担忧，认为这可能会挤占高速公路交通基金，而工会高度依赖该基金开展地方和全国基础设施项目。因此，我认为讨论联邦汽油税假期的关键在于细节：这笔钱从何而来？这才是核心问题。我们当然希望尽一切可能降低油价，但绝不能拆东墙补西墙，所以我们必须仔细研究具体细节。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 最后一个问题，菲茨帕特里克议员。您一直是乌克兰的坚定支持者。众议院此前就授权新的安全援助和对俄新制裁进行了投票，即便众议院通过了相关法案，我们也从参议院领袖图恩那里得知，参议院根本没有时间审议这项法案。接下来你们打算怎么办？
众议员菲茨帕特里克： 玛格丽特，我们将尽一切努力确保参议院能抽出时间审议这项法案。乌克兰军队在哈尔科夫以及乌克兰东部沿海各地的前线英雄们，急需我们的援助。他们需要士气上的鼓舞。我曾多次前往前线，明确表示会无条件支持他们。正如您所知，我们本周已征集到218个联名签名，发起了一项规模宏大的全院表决动议，其意义远超单纯的对俄制裁。这只是整个对乌援助方案的一部分，但整体方案涵盖了对乌援助的方方面面。我想对乌克兰朋友们说：援助正在路上。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的，两位议员，感谢你们在这个两党对话的场合接受我们的采访，非常感谢。广告之后我们马上回来。
Transcript: Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick and Tom Suozzi on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” May 17, 2026
2026-05-17T12:37:00-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick, Republican of Pennsylvania, and Tom Suozzi, Democrat of New York, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on May 17, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation, and the co-chairs of the bipartisan House Problem Solvers Caucus, Republican Brian Fitzpatrick joins us from Langhorne, Pennsylvania, Democrat Tom Suozzi from Queens, New York. Good morning to you both, gentlemen.
REP. TOM SUOZZI: Good morning.
REP. BRIAN FITZPATRICK: Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to start with you, Congressman Fitzpatrick. You know, CBS estimates that the net impact of all this redistricting is that Republicans are going to get roughly nine seats- get them nine seats closer, I should say, to keeping control of the House. I mean, presumably that’s the outcome the president was looking for here. Why are you concerned that you know driving towards the majority through these methods is actually a negative for your party?
REP. FITZPATRICK: It’s a terrible thing for our country. Margaret, gerrymandering is one of the most, if not the most, corrosive things to our democracy that I can imagine. Tom and I completely agree with it. Our entire bipartisan Problem Solvers caucus agrees to it. We met this past week to start taking measurable steps to fight back, because you know part of the challenge, Margaret, is you know much like how elections are conducted, these district lines, it’s largely a function of state government and state legislative action. The only jurisdictional hook we have on the federal system is funding, so particularly the Help America Vote Act, the so-called HAVA funding that passed after the Bush v. Gore hanging-chad election. You know, we can tie that money – it’s billions of dollars that get sent to the states to carry out their elections. We can tie that funding to certain reforms, and one of the things that has to happen – only seven states, by the way, do this in America – is have independent citizen commissions, with computer-generated line drawing assisting them, to make sure that we have more balanced districts in this country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I understand the effort and the intent, but Congressman Suozzi, your party’s leaders also gerrymander- gerrymandering, and your group, as we just heard from Congressman Fitzpatrick, you’re supporting efforts to stop it. But it looks like your members are going to be directly impacted themselves. About 45 members of your caucus may face redistricting. You’ve said it’s going to kill the country. I mean, how does it actually kill the ability to reach across the aisle like you gentlemen are doing?
REP. SUOZZI: What happens is, when you create the safe seats through gerrymandering, is that the only elections that matter are not the general election, but the primary, so everybody panders to their base, the Republicans talk to their base, Democrats talk to their base, instead of talking to all of their constituents about what they care about, and there’s a lot of pandering that goes on. So you know we’re in this- this battle right now, this race to the bottom, and we’re going to fight fire with fire. The Democrats are going to fight the Republicans, Republicans going to fight the Democrats. It’s bad for America. It’s bad for America to have all the safe seats where no politician is incentivized to listen to people and to reach across the aisle.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I misspoke. It’s 45 members in your caucus, more than a dozen of them may be directly impacted, but still I take your broader point here that it’s damaging to the ability to work cross aisle. But I want to ask you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, from the Republican perspective, we just saw what happened overnight down in Louisiana, where Senator Bill Cassidy lost in this three-way primary. The President himself, the leader of your party, who wanted this redistricting, has also been directly involved in some of these primary races, picking candidates, he came out hard against Cassidy. He’s also now focusing in on Congressman Thomas Massie of Kentucky, who has taken votes in opposition to the president, including for the release of the Epstein files. Is the message here for Republicans that if you dissent from the President, he is going to take you down?
REP. FITZPATRICK: Well, it is one of the many reasons, Margaret, why we need to open primaries up in all 50 states, another cause that Tom and I are behind. Over half the states in this country have closed primaries, meaning that if you are a registered independent, you are excluded from voting in 50% of elections, and let’s just put this into context. You could be a 98-year-old World War Two veteran who stormed the beaches of Normandy, saved civilization, who registers independent in the land of independence, which we’re celebrating 250 years of, and in half of the states of this country, including, unfortunately, our home state here in Pennsylvania, if you register independent, you’re told you’re not welcome to vote in half of elections. That is insane. And not only is it an injustice, Margaret, it has a terrible corrosive effect on the floor of the House. Tom and I see it all the time. We call it the vote no, hope yes crowd. They go to the House floor wanting to support a policy, knowing that policy is the right thing to do. But because they live in a closed primary state, and 18% of Americans, 18% of Americans vote in primaries, they’re going to the House floor thinking about 18% of their electorate instead of 100% of their electorate. So, closed primaries, coupled with gerrymandering, your previous question, are really, really hurting our country. They’re causing gridlock on the House floor.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah. It would seem, though, that- that you are really swimming against the tide here, both of you gentlemen. I want to ask you, Congressman Suozzi, about your–
REP. SUOZZI: Can I just make one quick?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah, sure. I was going to ask you about your race, but go ahead.
REP. SUOZZI: Let me just. Let me just make a quick point. I’m in a district that Donald Trump won by 19,000 votes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
REP. SUOZZI: Brian’s in the- and I’m a Democrat. Brian’s in the district as a Republican that Kamala Harris won. For me to win my race, I have to listen to everybody. I need the large majority of Democrats to vote for me. I need the majority of independents to vote for me. I even need a few Republicans to listen, to vote for me. So, I’ve got to listen to everybody, and that’s what’s good for America, is when their elected officials have to listen to their people. When you do all this gerrymandering and create all these safe seats, the politicians in the safe seats, most of the elected officials in Congress right now only have to win their primary because they’re guaranteed the Republicans are going to win the Republican seat, the Democrats can win the Democratic seat, and then they only listen to their base and they pander to their base. That’s contributing to the division of our country, along with social media, cable news, our foreign adversaries filling our social media feeds with a bunch of dreck.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Not going to push back on you on those points here, sir. But back to the question I was going to ask you in regard to your race. I know that when it comes to people like you have to go out and persuade, you believe that Democrats can really make a case on the affordability argument. We’ve been talking about the polling that CBS has done, showing how worrisome it is for the President’s party, but it also shows neither Democrats nor Republicans own the message. It’s pretty evenly split. 35 percent say Democrats would be better. It’s 31 percent who think Trump and Republicans would be. 34 percent neither or not sure. No one’s really convinced that either the parties have an answer here. So, how do you actually make that an edge?
REP. SUOZZI: Yeah, there’s no question that this is a major problem. Affordability is the number one issue in America. Your polling just shows that, and we see prices are going up like crazy. Why? Because of the tariffs, because of the war, because of the new data centers, and because of all the debt. And we have to propose policies that Democrats and Republicans will work together. You know, the tariff issue, the President supposed to come to Congress, the war powers, the president’s supposed to come to Congress. Let’s work together to actually put solutions in place, so we can get back to a place in America where everybody, whether you’re a left-wing progressive or a right-wing conservative, you believe that in return for working hard, you make enough money so you can afford to buy a house, educate your kids, pay for health insurance, and retire without being scared. We’ve got to get back to those basic fundamental, fundamental messages. Enough with the finger pointing and the culture wars. Let’s focus on the economics of people’s lives, so we can rebuild the middle class and help those folks that are aspiring to the middle class.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But in some ways, that polling Congressman Fitzpatrick says people want something different from what they’re hearing from both of the parties, they’re not hearing new ideas. Go ahead.
REP. FITZPATRICK: Yeah. Over half of the people in this country live paycheck to paycheck. A lot of the things that are being discussed inside the state capitals across America, inside the US Capitol, is not laser focused on that all day, every day. Yes, we have to focus on national security. Yes, we have to focus on foreign policy. We got to do it all.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yep.
REP. FITZPATRICK: But we cannot ignore the fact that half of Americans are stressing over their family budgets, and that’s got to drive the legislative agenda. I believe that it was that reason that President Trump won in 2024. I think that’s why Zoran Mamdami won in 2025 and I think both parties, Margaret, are failing to get that message that we have to focus like a laser on the economy on these family budgets and identify the silos. What’s causing high energy costs? What’s causing high childcare costs? What’s causing high health care costs? Tom and I step forward through a discharge petition and passed the, through the house, the premium tax credit extension. We’re trying to do our part to cross the aisle to work in the center to focus on the issues that people really care about, which is the kitchen table issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, to that point, President Trump told my colleague Nancy Cordes that he endorsed a federal gas tax holiday. Believe it still would have to go before Congress. Would both of you gentlemen, vote for that? Suspending it?
REP. SUOZZI: I think you know we have to consider short term fix. It’s going to affect the (CROSSTALK) Yeah, it’s a short term fix. We really got to get to the president’s got to come to Congress to discuss the war and how to, how to move forward to get out of the- out of the war, and to affect the gas prices. That’s the real issue here. The tariffs are what are really affecting people’s prices. Come to Congress, work with Democrats and Republicans. Let’s try and move our country forward.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman-
REP. FITZPATRICK: My answer. Yeah, my answer to that question. So we work with a lot with the labor unions, they’ve expressed some concerns about this federal gas tax holiday, that it might raid the highway transit fund, which they rely on heavily for all the local infrastructure and national infrastructure projects, for that matter. So, I think the devil is in the detail when we say federal gas tax holiday, where is that money coming from? That’s really going to be the driving question. Yes, we want to do everything possible to lower gas prices, but we don’t want to rob Peter to pay Paul, so we have to, we have to look at the details here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Quickly before I let you go. Congressman Fitzpatrick, you’re a big supporter of Ukraine. You did get some additional support for additional assistance when it comes to the House. This is like a vote on authorizing new security aid and imposing new sanctions on Russia, even after the House votes, we’re hearing in the Senate from Leader Thune, he’s got no time to take it up. What do you do next?
REP. FITZPATRICK: We’re going to do everything we can, Margaret, to make sure they find time to take it up, because our- the heroes that are on the front lines of the Ukrainian military in Kharkiv and everywhere, everywhere else along the eastern coast of Ukraine, need our help. They need the morale boost. I’ve been there on the front line several times. I have pledged my unequivocal support for them. We reached 218 signatures, as you know, this week on a massive, massive discharge petition that is far greater than even just Russia sanctions. That’s a big piece of it, but it’s an overall a package to Ukraine. So, my message to our Ukrainian friends: help is on the way.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, gentlemen, thank you for speaking to us in this bipartisan setting. Appreciate it. We’ll be right back.
