2026-07-26T12:32:20-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是美国常驻联合国大使迈克·沃尔兹的采访实录，该采访于2026年7月26日在《玛格丽特·布伦南直面全国》节目中播出。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我们现在来连线前FDA局长斯科特·戈特利布博士。他目前是辉瑞和联合健康集团的董事会成员。戈特利布博士，很高兴您再次做客节目。目前有9个州暴发了圆孢子虫病疫情，这现已成为美国规模最大的食源性疾病暴发事件之一。美国卫生与公众服务部部长肯尼迪称疫情已得到控制。您认为果真如此吗？
斯科特·戈特利布博士： 我认为严格来说疫情尚未得到控制。我认为FDA方面的工作做得不错，已将感染源头锁定在墨西哥中部和一些特定农场。目前看来，多数病例都源自墨西哥中部的农场，当地应该发生了某种情况。要知道，这种寄生虫唯一已知的宿主是人类粪便，所以很可能是污水污染了墨西哥中部的种植田，进而污染了农作物。目前尚无人清楚具体是如何发生的。通过将感染源头锁定在该区域，许多餐厅、批发商和零售商已经停止采购来自墨西哥中部的农产品，我认为这降低了感染风险。但我认为疫情还没有完全得到控制，因为我们无法确定这是不是唯一的传染源区域。不过就目前情况来看，确实如此。目前报告的部分病例，可能来自其他地区——包括世界其他地区和美国国内，这些属于日常散发的病例。当前报告病例数增加可能和检测率提升有关，但显然绝大多数病例都来自墨西哥中部地区。值得一提的是，墨西哥公共卫生当局否认对此事负责。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我记得您曾建议民众购买整颗生菜，而非预切袋装生菜，选择本地采购而非超市产品。为什么我们没有听到现任FDA局长给出这类建议？
斯科特·戈特利布博士： 没错，我认为FDA在沟通方面存在一些挑战。该局在锁定感染源头方面做得不错，行动也很迅速。这种病原体很难检测，目前没有很好的检测方法，无法直接在食品中检测出该病菌。但该机构的沟通力度不如预期。消费者其实可以采取一些防护措施。正如您所说，可以购买整颗生菜自己切碎，而非预切袋装生菜，袋装生菜的感染风险更高。也可以选择本地采购的产品，目前没有已知的本地采购农产品引发疫情的案例。在2016、2017年之前，美国本土产的农产品中从未发现过这种寄生虫。之后开始在加州产的农产品中出现，但感染水平远低于墨西哥和南美地区。此次疫情还和天气因素有关。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 不过您也清楚，公众对卫生机构的信任正遭遇危机。我们的民调显示，47%的美国人不太信任FDA应对此次疫情的能力。作为前FDA局长，这一定让您感触颇深。而且此事也引发了公众讨论。大家不仅在关注人员裁减问题，《华尔街日报》还报道称，被指销售问题生菜的泰勒食品公司——至少是涉事产品的供应商之一——曾联系白宫请求推迟发布召回公告，白宫还让FDA加入了相关通话。这不符合标准操作流程，对吗？
斯科特·戈特利布博士： 没错，不符合，我在FDA任职期间也从未见过这种情况。我也曾处理过长叶生菜和菠菜的大肠杆菌暴发疫情，当时除了向白宫通报我们的工作进展，确保他们得到充分简报并能回应相关问询外，白宫从未干预过这些事。所以这种情况很反常。根据报道来看，我认为这并未导致FDA在沟通方面出现重大延误，顶多延迟了几天，肯定不是几周。我认为此次事件的失误主要出在疾控中心，他们没能及时识别最初的聚集性病例。整体而言，我们是依靠密歇根州的公共卫生官员才锁定了该聚集性病例。疾控中心似乎并未像往常一样积极介入，是密歇根州的公共卫生官员主导了应对工作。不过在他们锁定病例集群后，溯源工作很快就找到了相关农场和具体食品来源。2018年我们也曾暴发过长叶生菜大肠杆菌疫情，当时花了数周时间才将感染源头锁定在特定种植区域。而此次他们只用了几天时间，肯定不超过几周。所以我认为FDA的行动相当迅速。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我想接着问问您关于疾控中心的一则公告：2026年的麻疹感染人数已超过过去35年。美国儿科学会警告称，美国儿童将为此付出代价。今年93%的病例都发生在未接种疫苗或疫苗接种情况不明的人群中。我们是否可以期待特朗普政府发起全国性运动，号召家长为孩子接种麻疹疫苗？还是说这类举措已随《美国家庭医生学会医疗法案》（MAHA）一同不复存在了？
斯科特·戈特利布博士： 没错，我们必须认清现实，消除麻疹已不再是本届政府的政策，肯尼迪部长显然也持此态度。只要他还在任，我不认为会有任何协调一致的疫苗接种推广行动。他曾明确表示，在某些情况下不鼓励接种疫苗，至少不会主动推广。目前未接种疫苗的群体多为婴幼儿。等这些孩子长大到幼儿园、学前班或日托中心这类场所后，国内的麻疹病例数还会继续上升。疫情不会好转，只会持续恶化。以流感为例，去年美国儿科流感死亡人数创下纪录，达到298例。今年目前已有近200例，而部长却称儿童无需接种流感疫苗。这种情况并非仅出现在麻疹防控领域，所有这类感染都非常严重。即便患者痊愈，也可能留下诸多长期后遗症。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 最后一个问题。膳食补充剂生产商无需像制药公司那样，通过临床试验证明产品安全性。目前有提议在FDA设立咨询委员会，将六种肽类物质列入药房可配制和生产的物质清单。这种更广泛的可及性是好事还是坏事？
斯科特·戈特利布博士： 我认为这是件坏事，因为目前尚无证据证明这些受关注的化合物有益处。这些都是药房配制的化合物，属于注射用肽类物质，存在相关风险，且未被证实具有任何益处。其中最受欢迎的是一种名为PBC-157*的物质，人们声称它具有多种健康功效。FDA能够审查到的唯一一项临床研究是针对溃疡性结肠炎的30人试验，结果并未发现任何益处。因此这些化合物没有相关临床数据支持，我认为民众使用这类物质只会面临风险，却无法获得任何已证实的益处。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 戈特利布博士，今天的访谈就到这里。非常感谢您做客节目。我们稍后继续回来。
编者注： 此处应为肽类物质BPC-157，而非PBC-157。
Transcript: Former FDA commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” July 26, 2026
2026-07-26T12:32:20-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of an interview with U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Mike Waltz that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on July 26, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to former FDA Commissioner Dr. Scott Gottlieb. He sits on the boards of Pfizer and UnitedHealth. Dr. Gottlieb, it’s good to have you back. We’ve got cyclospora outbreaks in nine states. It is now one of the nation’s largest foodborne illness outbreaks. HHS Secretary Kennedy says it’s under control. Do you think it is?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: I don’t think it’s under control yet, per se. I think that they’ve done a good job, FDA has, isolating this to central Mexico and some specific farms as well. It appears that a lot of these cases are emanating from farms in central Mexico, and there was probably some kind of event there. Remember, this particular parasite-the only known reservoir for it is human fecal matter, so probably sewage got onto those growing fields in central Mexico and contaminated those crops. Nobody’s sure how yet. And so by isolating it to that region, a lot of restaurants, a lot of wholesalers, retailers have been able to cut off supplies from central Mexico, and I think that mitigates the risk. I don’t think this is fully under control yet because we don’t know for sure that that’s the only growing region where this is coming from. But it does seem to be the case at this point. Some of the cases that are being reported right now probably are cases happening from other parts of the- the world and other parts of the country that are normal background cases that you see. There’s probably increased reporting, but clearly the bulk of these cases appear to be coming from that central Mexican region. It’s worth noting that Mexican authorities, public health authorities, deny that they’re responsible for this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I saw you recommended people buy heads of lettuce, not pre-chopped bags, buy locally, not from the grocery store. Why aren’t we hearing more from the current FDA commissioner on that kind of advice?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yeah, look, I think that there is some challenges with communications from the FDA. I think FDA has done a good job isolating this, and they were fast to do this. This is a hard pathogen to detect. There’s no really good test for it, so you can’t test for it in food. But there hasn’t been as much communication from the agency as you might expect. There are things that consumers can do. You can buy a whole head of lettuce, like you said, and chop it up rather than buying bag lettuce. There’s higher risk with bag lettuce. You can source locally. There haven’t been known outbreaks from locally sourced produce. Prior to 2016, 2017, we never saw this particular species in U.S. sourced produce. It started to appear in California produce, but certainly in lower levels than what you see in Mexico and South America. There is a weather component here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There is, though, as you know, a public- public confidence crisis here when it comes to our health agencies. Our polling showed 47% of Americans do not have much confidence in the FDA to deal with the outbreak. That must hit hard as the former FDA commissioner. But it’s also in part in the public space. They’re looking not just at the personnel cuts, but like the Wall Street Journal is reporting that Taylor Farms, one of the companies that is- has been identified as- as selling some of the lettuce, at least that is in question. They contacted the White House to request a delay in announcing a recall, and the White House had the FDA join that call. That is not standard operating procedure, is it?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: No, it’s not, and it wasn’t standard operating procedure when I was at FDA. I dealt with outbreaks in romaine lettuce and spinach as well, E. coli in spinach and romaine lettuce. I never heard from the White House on those things, other than to have discussions to inform them of what we were doing, so that they were properly briefed and could respond to questions that they were getting. So it’s unusual. I don’t think it really led to a significant delay in the ability of FDA to communicate in this case, based on that reporting, probably days, certainly not weeks. I think the breakdown here really was with CDC in identifying that initial cluster. By and large, we were dependent upon public health officials in Michigan to isolate that cluster. CDC really didn’t seem to be as involved as the agency normally would be. Michigan public health officials led that response. Once they- once they isolated the cluster, however, the traceback to the farm and to the particular food source happened relatively fast. We had an outbreak of E. coli in romaine lettuce back in 2018. It took us many weeks to isolate that to a specific growing region. They were able to do that in a matter of, maybe days here, certainly weeks. So I think FDA worked pretty quickly to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you about the CDC announcement that there are now more measles infections in 2026 than in the past 35 years. The American Academy of Pediatrics warns it’s America’s children that are going to pay the price for this. Ninety-three percent of this year’s cases are among the unvaccinated, or the vaccination status is unknown. Should we, at any point, expect the Trump administration to lead a national campaign to get your kid vaccinated against measles, or did that die with MAHA?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Yeah, look, I think we need to accept that measles elimination is no longer the policy of this administration or certainly Secretary Kennedy, and I wouldn’t expect any kind of concerted effort so long as he is in that position. This is his stated policy to, in some cases, discourage vaccination, but certainly not encourage it. And the children who aren’t getting vaccinated right now are babies. Once they age into settings where they can contract that disease – kindergarten, preschool, daycare – you’re going to see cases continue to rise in this country. It’s not going to go down; it’s going to continue to go up. Look at flu, for example. We had a record number of pediatric flu deaths last year, 298 pediatric flu deaths. We have almost 200 this year, and the secretary has said children don’t need to get vaccinated for flu. So this is across the board; it’s not just measles. These infections are very serious. There’s a lot of long-term sequelae, even if you survive the infection.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let me quickly ask you. Supplement makers don’t have to do what pharmaceutical companies do in terms of proving through clinical trials that products are safe. There’s this push for this advisory board at the FDA to make, I guess, six peptides be added to a list of substances pharmacies can compound and produce. Is that wider access a good thing or a bad thing?
DR. SCOTT GOTTLIEB: Well, I think it’s a bad thing from the standpoint that there’s not any proven benefits from these compounds that are in question. These are compounds being formulated by pharmacies. They’re compounded products. They’re peptides that people inject. There’s risks associated with that, and there aren’t any proven benefits. The most popular of these is the substance called PBC-157,* which people have ascribed a whole range of health benefits to. The only clinical study that the FDA was able to review was a 30-patient clinical study in a setting of ulcerative colitis, where they found no benefit. So there isn’t clinical data associated with these, so I think there’s risk with no- no demonstrated benefit that people are going to derive.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Gottlieb, I’ve got to leave it there. Always good to talk to you. We’ll be right back.
EDITOR’S NOTE: This was in reference to the peptide BPC-157, not PBC-157.