2026-11-08T14:27:07-0500 / CBS
本期《与玛格丽特·布伦南一起面对国家》节目由玛格丽特·布伦南主持，嘉宾包括：
- 马萨诸塞州民主党参议员伊丽莎白·沃伦
- 阿肯色州共和党众议员弗伦奇·希尔
- 卡利·米恩斯，前白宫高级顾问、卫生部长罗伯特·F·肯尼迪二世的高级顾问
- 候任众议员南希·拉科尔，退役海军中将
点击此处浏览2026年《与玛格丽特·布伦南一起面对国家》完整 transcript。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：我是在华盛顿的玛格丽特·布伦南。
本周《面对国家》节目内容：周二的“蓝色浪潮”过后，共和党重新集结，特朗普总统在白宫做出重大人事调整，民主党现在面临着推动实际施政的艰巨挑战。
上周选民对特朗普议程的压倒性否决，如今将民主党推向了风口浪尖。公众要求他们纠正国家存在的问题，而民主党需要处理的任务清单艰巨繁重。
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乔斯林·本森（密歇根州候任民主党州长）：我们要降低成本，提高工资，终结腐败。
谢罗德·布朗（俄亥俄州候任民主党参议员）：我们将奋力终结这些关税，结束这场战争。
（欢呼）
克里斯·帕帕斯众议员（新罕布什尔州民主党，候任参议员）：这意味着扩大医疗保健和儿童保育的可及性，拯救社会保障体系。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：民主党在国会山赢得了可观的多数席位，但还未达到推翻总统否决所需的票数。政府两大分支能否真正开展合作？
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唐纳德·特朗普（美国总统）：除非他们想搞破坏，否则我大概率能与民主党和睦相处。但我拥有否决权。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：我们将与两位核心议题相关的关键人物，探讨两党在银行和金融立法领域开展合作的可能性——马萨诸塞州民主党参议员伊丽莎白·沃伦，以及阿肯色州共和党众议员弗伦奇·希尔。
白宫方面，共和党在中期选举中遭遇惨败后的责任追究愈演愈烈，苏西·怀尔斯离职，斯蒂芬·米勒将出任总统的强势幕僚长一职。
我们与前白宫卫生政策顾问卡利·米恩斯进行了对话，他公开对怀尔斯和其他白宫高级助手提出了极具冲击力的指控，称他们在中期选举前将特殊利益置于“让美国再次健康（MAHA）”议程之上。米恩斯的指控是否导致了怀尔斯的离职？
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玛格丽特·布伦南：你的意图是让她被免职吗？
卡利·米恩斯（前白宫高级顾问）：是的。
（视频片段结束）
玛格丽特·布伦南：更多内容尽在本期《面对国家》。
早上好，欢迎收看《面对国家》。
周二的选民态度明确：他们要求立即解决高物价问题。总统将如何与立法分支合作，推动美国民众所需的相关行动？
希望我们今晚能从《60分钟》记者罗斯·杜塔特对特朗普总统的专访中获得一些见解——该专访于周五录制，正值苏西·怀尔斯离职的消息曝光前。以下是节目预告。
（视频片段开始）
罗斯·杜塔特：有《福布斯》报道称，你的净资产可能因近期股市变动而发生了变化，但你自重返……以来净资产增长了30亿美元。
唐纳德·特朗普（美国总统）：每个人都一样。好吧，你准备好了吗？是这样的……
罗斯·杜塔特：我的净资产并没有增长30亿美元，这一点需要说明。
唐纳德·特朗普总统：那你该买股票。
罗斯·杜塔特：我该……
唐纳德·特朗普总统：你该买股票。
罗斯·杜塔特：我该买股票。
唐纳德·特朗普总统：不好意思，我把……我把……
罗斯·杜塔特：你的净资产是怎么增长30亿美元的？
唐纳德·特朗普总统：我来解释一下。我几乎没花时间关注自己的净资产，我不在乎。我有很多钱，远超我曾经的预期，我猜它增长了，我甚至都不知道。我有个儿子，是个非常正直的好人，他管钱。我甚至都不跟他谈钱的事，他负责打理——他们把我的钱打理得很好。我有很多现金，早在我入主白宫前就有很多现金了。
罗斯·杜塔特：是的。
唐纳德·特朗普总统：你知道的，我不拿薪水。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：大家可以今晚7点在《60分钟》节目中观看对特朗普总统的专访。
现在连线马萨诸塞州民主党人参议员伊丽莎白·沃伦，她是候任参议院银行委员会主席，从剑桥远程参与我们的节目。
早上好，参议员。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员（马萨诸塞州民主党）：早上好。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你撰写了一份概要，一篇关于民主党掌控多数席位后施政方向的专栏文章。
你写道：“民主党之所以获胜，是因为他们作为民粹主义经济斗士，敢于揭露那些为了牺牲公众利益而操纵体制的腐败政客和企业利益集团。”
这番话呼应了特朗普总统的民粹主义经济主张——当然不是他在台上的表述，而是他一再向选民传递的理念。你认为你能在哪些具体政策上与他开展合作？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：特朗普总统自己也曾表示，他希望将信用卡利率降至10%。我已经提出了相关法案，随时可以推进。
特朗普总统还表示希望在住房问题上有更多作为。我们也准备好了相关法案，随时可以推进。此外，美国民众在价格欺诈、农村医院保护、医疗保健可及性等诸多方面，也有大量诉求。
我们已经规划了大量可以推进的工作。事实上，本次选举最棒的一点在于，许多民主党人不仅仅声称“我代表中产阶级”，他们还明确表示“我清楚体制的问题所在，这里是我提出的具体解决方案，我致力于落实这些方案”。
因此，在密歇根州和得克萨斯州，候选人都提出了拆分大型制药公司的相同主张；在堪萨斯州和南卡罗来纳州，民主党候选人表示“我们支持《住房自由选择法案》，但我们需要更大胆、更全面地推进住房建设”；在北卡罗来纳州和阿拉斯加州，候选人提出“我们需要拆分食品杂货店垄断企业，遏制价格欺诈”。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：爱荷华州和缅因州的参议员候选人则表示，我们要夯实社会保障体系，让亿万富翁承担公平税负。
玛格丽特，这些听上去是诸多不同的议题。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：实则不然，所有议题都围绕经济权力展开。民众告诉我们他们想要的就是这些，而我们现在有团队来落实。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我得跟你说，竞选阶段和实际立法工作是两回事。
特朗普总统曾表示，他确实希望在一些领域与民主党合作，比如移民、减税或——引用他的话——“与税收相关的某些方面，让经济发展更便利，推进各类经济发展倡议”。
你觉得这些合作方向与你对白宫的预期是否相符？现在由斯蒂芬·米勒执掌，当然还有特朗普总统本人。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：明确来说，设定议程的是美国民众，他们才是真正的诉求提出者。
他们不仅向民主党传递了诉求，也向共和党传递了非常明确的信息。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：我只是在落实今年夏天达成的共识。我们两党联合推出了一项住房法案，旨在扩大住房供应、降低住房成本……
玛格丽特·布伦南：对。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：……而且这是美国历史上首次……
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：……禁止私募股权投资。
唐纳德·特朗普甚至没有签署这项法案，但它如今已成为法律。无论唐纳德·特朗普是否参与，我们都有很多方式为美国民众谋福祉。
玛格丽特·布伦南：因为这项法案拥有推翻总统否决所需的多数席位，这可能会带来更大挑战。
你曾表示要让那些可能违法的大型科技公司CEO、华尔街高管和巨型企业承担责任。需要明确一点……
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：……你的重点会放在立法还是调查上？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：两者都要兼顾。
但我想明确一点：如果你通过欺诈美国家庭、欺骗投资者来谋取利润，就该准备好迎接严肃的调查。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你具体指的是哪些对象？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：任何欺诈行为的实施者，这就是调查的全部意义所在。
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的，你目前还没有列出计划传唤的人员名单，即使你即将出任这个职位？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：我认为按程序推进调查很重要。
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：因为，美国民众已经受够了这种情况。
（交叉对话）
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：他们受够了白宫在民众遭受欺诈时也不执法。他们受够了白宫终止调查，说只要你给特朗普的宴会厅捐款，就不会对欺诈数百万美国消费者的行为执法……
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：……这种情况必须结束。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我们在民意调查中也看到了对腐败的担忧。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：嗯哼。
玛格丽特·布伦南：新国会中，预计将执掌参议院外交关系委员会的克里斯·库恩斯参议员表示，他希望得到关于芯片制造商英伟达及其CEO黄仁勋的相关问题的答案。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：《纽约时报》报道称，他可能与一名中国间谍关系密切。你能否透露相关信息？人工智能会是你的工作重点，尤其是这家芯片制造商？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：说到这家芯片制造商，我们在银行委员会确实有相当多的两党支持。
我们有共和党和民主党议员，我也参与了限制向中国出口芯片的两党法案。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：事实上，我们两党合作阻止了特朗普批准英伟达向中国出口芯片，现在我们已经看到了一些后果。
因此，我们有大量工作要推进，也有诸多途径来落实。
玛格丽特·布伦南：嗯……
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：但核心始终是降低家庭开支、根除腐败。议程并不复杂。
玛格丽特·布伦南：民主党承诺的事项之一是终结与伊朗的战争。现在共和党还剩几周的多数党任期。
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你在武装部队委员会任职。本内特参议员和马克·凯利参议员等人表示，民主党应切断白宫运营资金，向特朗普总统施压以结束这场战争。
众议院也有议员提出类似的声音。你认为情况会如何？我们会看到政府全面停摆吗？未来几周会出现政府关门吗？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：要求结束这场战争的压力正在加剧。
民众告诉我们，他们希望我们结束这场战争——一场非法的战争，一场发生在半个地球之外的战争，特朗普政府至今仍无法解释其目标是什么，也没有退出计划。他们希望我们停止这场战争，不要在海外花钱。
他们希望能买到汽油和取暖油，让经济恢复运转。我认为，终结这场战争的时机已经成熟。我们有多种手段来推进此事。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你指的是利用谈判筹码吗？
伊丽莎白·沃伦参议员：是的。
美国民众已经发声，现在是时候听取他们的意见了。民主党准备为此抗争，我们也邀请共和党加入我们。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我们拭目以待。感谢参议员今天参与我们的节目。
《面对国家》一分钟后回归，敬请期待。
（节目预告）
玛格丽特·布伦南：现在连线共和党众议员弗伦奇·希尔，他目前担任金融服务委员会主席，从阿肯色州小石城远程参与我们的节目。
早上好，众议员。
你在阿肯色州这场艰难的选举中胜出——该州历来是共和党票仓，你仅以4000余票的优势击败民主党对手。你的许多共和党同僚为何败选？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员（阿肯色州共和党）：早上好，玛格丽特。很高兴与你连线。今年的选举周期非常复杂艰难。
我们在2024年向美国民众承诺，我们将巩固边境、保障社区安全、在国际舞台发挥领导作用，同时我们也承诺会继续努力降低成本。
我认为，无论共和党在众议院做出多少努力，美国民众仍对拜登政府时期高达20%的通胀心存担忧。虽然通胀已从9%降至3%，但并未进一步降低。
我认为这是核心问题，也是美国家庭正在经历的成本压力。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：因此，我们还有很多工作要做。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的，尤其是过去半年来，成本涨幅超过了工资涨幅。
但现在谈谈可行的部分。特朗普总统已经更换了幕僚长，你知道的，现在由斯蒂芬·米勒担任这一职务。你的共和党同僚、内布拉斯加州的唐·培根表示，米勒并非合适人选，因为他态度强硬，在选举中伤害了共和党，引用他的话说，“他让特朗普在移民问题上的支持率从2比1的优势变为2比1的劣势”。
你是否认同他的看法？米勒出任这一职位意味着什么？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：首先，苏西·怀尔斯即将离职。特朗普总统有权提拔斯蒂芬·米勒担任幕僚长。
这一职责意味着，在第120届国会期间，他将作为总统代表，与国会讨论政策事宜。
不过，关于移民问题，我认为我们应专注于移民改革。2018年我曾两次投票支持相关法案，目的是解决本国庇护申请处理、临时保护措施，以及如何处理持有绿卡的儿童、工程领域人才和非法入境者的子女等问题。
我们确实需要解决这些问题。我认为特朗普总统可以在这方面发挥领导作用，而这正是斯蒂芬·米勒关注的领域——巩固边境没错……
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：……但我们能否同时改革移民体系，让它更符合美国利益？
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：我相信这将解决驱逐相关问题。
玛格丽特·布伦南：我理解你的愿景，但你真的认为斯蒂芬·米勒能说服民主党，也能被说服，达成你刚才所说的庇护措施吗？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：特朗普总统多年来一直表示，如果边境得到巩固，他希望尝试改革我们糟糕的移民体系。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：这是他第一任期内就提出的议题。这次选举可能为我们在新一届国会以两党方式找到解决方案提供了机会。
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的。
你们有诸多事务要处理。你的共和党同僚托马斯·马西正在推动弹劾国防部长皮特·赫格斯，预计本周就会有相关行动。你的一些同僚，比如詹姆斯·科默表示：“我非常确信，外界对赫格斯存在诸多质疑，共和党选民对此感到不满。”
赫格斯是否应该被弹劾？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：问题是总统是否应该继续让他担任国防部长。
玛格丽特·布伦南：但马西议员会要求你对此做出回应。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：是的，没错。
我希望能看到相关辩论，判断是否需要弹劾，还是需要采取其他惩戒措施，或者在他未能胜任部长职责时由总统采取行动。这才是问题核心。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你对战争的处理方式满意吗？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：不满意。我认为，作为武装部队总司令，总统必须为战争的战略制定和执行承担责任。
但我要告诉你一点：美国没人希望伊朗拥有核武器。
玛格丽特·布伦南：当然。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：这是美国50年来的目标。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：玛格丽特，回顾20世纪90年代，克林顿总统曾有机会阻止朝鲜拥有核武器。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：但那并未实现。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的……
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：这对东北亚和美国来说都是重大问题。
玛格丽特·布伦南：中央司令部刚刚悬赏2000万美元，征集伊朗核计划的相关信息。显然，美国政府既没有明确的情报，也未能彻底摧毁该计划。
回到赫格斯的问题，我理解正确吗？你并不完全认同战争的进展，但对于他是否犯下了应被弹劾的罪行，你还没有定论？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你是否考虑过弹劾的可能性？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：是的，就是这样。这才是问题所在：如果你认为他在履职方面表现不佳，并不一定意味着他犯下了可弹劾的罪行。
他是行政分支的高级官员，如果他没有正确履行职责，总统应当做出调整。问题在于，五角大楼的领导是否得当？
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：这与某人是否犯下可弹劾的罪行完全是两回事。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你目前还不想公开表明你的投票立场。
你是否已决定支持史蒂夫·斯卡利斯还是吉姆·乔丹担任共和党领袖？
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：这两人都是出色的领袖，都能成功带领党团。新议员加入后，我们有大约60到65名来自170席多数派的议员，他们任职时间不到两年。我认为我们需要召开党内会议讨论此事。史蒂夫·斯卡利斯和吉姆·乔丹都完全有能力在少数党中发挥领导作用，我期待本周在党团会议上看到大家的讨论。
玛格丽特·布伦南：好的，我们拭目以待，也期待看到你对赫格斯部长的投票结果。
感谢弗伦奇·希尔从阿肯色州参与我们的节目。
弗伦奇·希尔众议员：不客气。
玛格丽特·布伦南：敬请期待，《面对国家》回归后还有更多内容。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：上周中期选举中，十分之九的选民将腐败列为投票给国会的关键或重要因素。
上周末，一位名叫卡利·米恩斯的前特朗普白宫官员指控几名特朗普高级官员存在企业利益影响，其中包括时任幕僚长的苏西·怀尔斯。他的言论发布在上周五的播客节目中，在华盛顿引发轩然大波。
米恩斯是“让美国再次健康（MAHA）”运动的领袖之一，曾助力2024年肯尼迪和唐纳德·特朗普建立合作关系。我们在周六对他进行了采访。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：特朗普总统宣布幕僚长苏西·怀尔斯已离开白宫。她的离职正值共和党在中期选举中遭遇惨败之际。同时，你公开了一些非常具体的腐败指控，并呼吁清理白宫。你的意图是让她被免职吗？
卡利·米恩斯（前白宫高级顾问）：是的。
我认为特朗普总统被特殊利益集团的附庸架空了，这些人背离了特朗普的竞选主张和选民的投票目标。我在白宫负责MAHA倡议，斯蒂芬·米勒最近在一次演讲中也提到了这一点。MAHA的核心在于，我们是唯一会面临儿科癌症和高癌症发病率的灵长类动物。
显然，这是因为我们的环境，是因为农药，是因为儿童70%的饮食是超加工食品，是因为我们晒太阳的时间太少。这些都是最基本的事实。
我认为这是MAHA运动的核心，也是特朗普总统竞选主张的核心。
玛格丽特·布伦南：嗯哼。
卡利·米恩斯：美国民众投票要求改变这些现状。
我认为，在特朗普总统不知情的情况下，有一群前说客讨好 vaping 行业、超加工食品行业、制药行业和农药行业，为他们服务，借口是中期选举需要他们的资金，实际上是违背选民意愿，只看重他们的资金。这就是他们明确说的话。
玛格丽特·布伦南：嗯哼。你说的“他们”是谁？
卡利·米恩斯：苏西和她的同伙，苏西和理查德·沃尔特斯，大多数人可能不认识他，但他是美国最有权势的人之一，是苏西接受癌症治疗期间的代行幕僚长。还有沃克·巴雷特和詹姆斯·布莱尔，他们是关系紧密的小圈子，明确迎合特殊利益，违背选民意愿。
我认为很多事情都是在特朗普总统不知情的情况下发生的。我不认为特朗普总统完全清楚，他的一些顾问在为他竞选时所打击的行业，却在接受这些行业的资金，并提供明确的政策建议。
玛格丽特·布伦南：直接接受资金吗？
卡利·米恩斯：是的，当然。
托尼·法布里齐奥……
玛格丽特·布伦南：他是民调专家。
卡利·米恩斯：……他是美国最有权势的人之一，每个内阁部长都在讨好托尼·法布里齐奥，试图让他接受自己的政策立场，因为任何政策都要经过托尼·法布里齐奥的考量才能获得政治认可。他每周都待在白宫。
玛格丽特·布伦南：他运营着白宫依赖的外部民调公司。
卡利·米恩斯：是的，但这只是个名字。他是白宫政策制定中最具影响力的人物之一，是美国最有权势的人之一。
他对任何政策的制定都有巨大的话语权。当他在评估推行健康食品、健康学校午餐，或是打击农药行业、大型制药公司（这些都是特朗普的竞选主张）的政治可行性时，他至今仍在从辉瑞、百事可乐拿钱。他的网站上至今都显示着这些信息。我刚刚录制的乔·罗根节目里就提到了这点。我们调取了他的网站，上面至今还挂着相关广告。他现在还在招揽客户，把这些人列为他的客户。
玛格丽特·布伦南：所以你认为他的所有民调都不可信？
卡利·米恩斯：我只是陈述事实，我只是……
玛格丽特·布伦南：这是你提出的论断。
卡利·米恩斯：是的，我只是陈述一个事实：我们当时试图推动一项支持率达90%的政策，定义超加工食品。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
卡利·米恩斯：而他说这“得不偿失”，并建议不要推行该政策，当时他还在从百事可乐拿钱。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：我们已联系托尼·法布里齐奥寻求置评，但尚未得到回应。理查德·沃尔特斯告诉CBS新闻，他上周五已提交辞职信。苏西·怀尔斯告诉我们，引用她的话说，“总统为MAHA所做的贡献，超过了以往任何一位总统，未来可能也不会有总统能及”。
稍后回来，半小时后将播出更多采访内容。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：稍后《面对国家》将带来更多内容，除了与卡利·米恩斯的更多对话，我们还将播出对候任民主党众议员南希·拉科尔的采访。她将成为有史以来在国会任职的最高军衔女性军官，加入新当选的退伍军人女性和女性议员的行列，人数创历史新高。
敬请期待。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：欢迎回到《面对国家》。
斯蒂芬·米勒晋升后的反应褒贬不一，甚至在部分共和党人中也存在分歧。我们继续播出对前白宫顾问卡利·米恩斯的采访。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：你关系极为密切的卫生部长候选人小罗伯特·F·肯尼迪曾表示，“斯蒂芬·米勒是政府中最坚定的MAHA支持者。现在是时候‘释放 Kraken’了。”
你怎么理解这句话？
卡利·米恩斯（前白宫高级顾问）：我理解这其实是共和和民主两党的机会。“释放 Kraken”意思是做对美国民众重要的事。在医疗领域，这些议题完全是无党派的。
我每天都和鲍比·肯尼迪在一起，正如你所说，我和他相处的时间可能比几乎任何人都多。他的主张和行动方向，与民主党正在推行的政策完全一致。包括打击企业掌控、打击腐败、打击大型制药公司的激励机制、让我们的食物更健康。这就是他推动团队去做的事。
玛格丽特·布伦南：从这个角度来看，你认为斯蒂芬·米勒是这项事业的盟友，但在华盛顿的运作方式上，他对民主党而言是“放射性人物”。他们已经在要求他离职，他是中期选举中极不受欢迎的大规模移民政策的设计师。
你认为他如何真正能帮助你在这项事业上取得成果？
卡利·米恩斯：移民问题不是我关注的领域——
玛格丽特·布伦南：不。
卡利·米恩斯：我要说的是，很多民调显示，边境危机的解决是核心诉求，斯蒂芬·米勒确实做到了，这是他的核心竞选承诺，是存在主义的议题。他非常能干，大幅降低了相关数据。所以我站在民众的角度发言更有权威性。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的。
卡利·米恩斯：我们来谈谈医疗领域。斯蒂芬·米勒希望与鲍比·肯尼迪和特朗普总统共同推进无党派的结构性变革。他想要达成的目标与伊丽莎白·沃伦、埃尔-赛义德及其他竞选人士的主张一致。我认为存在一个重要的合作机会，办成几件大事，说实话，我们必须这么做。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你告诉乔·罗根，如果你是特殊利益集团，你会向苏西·怀尔斯的女儿付钱来办成某事。你具体指的是哪项政策？你想说什么？
卡利·米恩斯：玛格丽特，包括你在内，大家都知道游戏规则是什么。他们知道大陆策略公司的年收入从0增长到3000万美元绝非偶然。
玛格丽特·布伦南：这是一家政治游说公司。
卡利·米恩斯：苏西所在的巴拉德合作伙伴公司，成为人类历史上收入最高的游说公司，这绝非偶然。给这些公司投资的人是有道理的。越来越多的人愿意说出真相。特朗普总统在竞选期间说了实话。苏西营造的这种环境，把美国民众当成傻瓜，坦白说，我也觉得她常常把特朗普总统当成傻瓜。
显然，大陆策略公司的收入暴增与凯蒂·怀尔斯在该公司工作直接相关。举个例子：有人近期看到凯蒂在反政府、亲俄罗斯的塞族共和国活动，之后该国领导人就奇迹般地安排了与苏西的会面。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你知道有报道称，总统自己的一些家庭成员有自己的财务利益和业务，你不认为这同样可能造成利益冲突吗？
卡利·米恩斯：我认为每个问题都应该被问及。当然。我无法对此发表评论。但我可以说的是，我从未见过特朗普总统有反对推进MAHA政策的倾向。我也可以证实，很多原本可以推进的事情，是在他眼皮底下被拖延的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：苏西·怀尔斯离职后，肯尼迪部长公开表示，是她牵线让他与特朗普达成合作，并感谢她帮助将颠覆性领导者引入卫生部。他并没有提及你现在所说的这些内容。
卡利·米恩斯：我对我所说的内容很有信心。很多议员和高级政府官员感谢我所做的事情，我对此很有底气。
玛格丽特·布伦南：肯尼迪部长知道你打算公开这些指控吗？
卡利·米恩斯：不知道。
玛格丽特·布伦南：如果你看最近在华盛顿举行的MAHA会议——
卡利·米恩斯：是的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：有多家大公司参与。比如沃尔玛、联合健康集团，还有一些与MAHA相关的公司，有能力在肯尼迪部长倡导的肽类政策上获利，还有其他健康倡议，这些公司可能会从这些政策中受益。这难道不也存在损害公信力的风险吗？
卡利·米恩斯：我不觉得……我不觉得……
玛格丽特·布伦南：这些公司也将获利。
卡利·米恩斯：是的。我无法代表外部组织的行为发表评论。我认为没有美国民众会觉得鲍比·肯尼迪被特殊利益集团收买。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你对此感到放心吗？
卡利·米恩斯：不，我不希望如此。
玛格丽特·布伦南：所有那些与MAHA结盟的公司？
卡利·米恩斯：我不想要这样的局面。这不是我能决定的。我不……我不喜欢这样的呈现方式。你说的是一个小型会议和一小群人。
玛格丽特·布伦南：规模挺大的。
卡利·米恩斯：我不想要这种观感。
玛格丽特·布伦南：部长在会上发言了，奥兹医生也发言了。
卡利·米恩斯：我不想要这种……我不喜欢这种观感。
玛格丽特·布伦南：演员拉塞尔·布兰德，他的……
卡利·米恩斯：我觉得没有美国民众会认为鲍比·肯尼迪被收买了。我认为所有企业利益都应该接受审查。
但说实话，补充剂公司不可能让巴拉德合作伙伴成为全球收入最高的公司，对吗？肽类公司和复合制剂公司也不会获得巴拉德的会面机会。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你成为了即将掌控新国会的民主党众议员的攻击目标。他们指控你自身存在利益冲突，因为你截至2025年11月持有TrueMed公司价值2500万至5000万美元的股票。当时我知道你的身份是特殊政府雇员，之后你成为了白宫的正式雇员，一些安排发生了变化。但对于审视这一阶段的人，你如何回应所谓的道德问题？
卡利·米恩斯：是的。每个人的利益冲突都应该接受严格审查。我写了一本关于运动和健康食品的书，之后创办了一家公司，致力于推动医疗开支转向运动和健康食品。通过这项工作，我结识了鲍比·肯尼迪和特朗普政府，随后进入政府任职，成为了一名特殊政府雇员。正如你所说，在决定全职进入政府时，我出售了公司的全部股份。在进入特朗普政府前，我们已经筹集了资金。
所以，我创办公司是为了推广健康食品和运动，为了进入政府，我完全放弃了公司业务，牺牲了经济利益。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：大陆策略公司的发言人，代表凯蒂·怀尔斯回应我们称，“米恩斯先生关于大陆策略的说法不准确且毫无根据”，并表示该公司“从未与米恩斯先生会面，从未为草甘膦、孟山都、Baer、vapes、kratom或类似政策游说”。他们还称，米恩斯关于凯蒂·怀尔斯参与塞族共和国选举的指控不实，正如其他媒体之前报道的那样。
我们也已联系巴拉德合作伙伴、卫生部长小罗伯特·F·肯尼迪及其助手寻求置评，但尚未得到回应。
稍后将播出采访的最后部分。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：我们回到对卡利·米恩斯采访的最后部分，该采访于上周六上午录制。
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玛格丽特·布伦南：你在最近的采访中表示，政府正在阻挠你推动的卫生政策，你明确说他们这么做是为了从糖业获取资金。你还提到了烟草业，解释一下你看到了什么？
卡利·米恩斯：就在苏西·怀尔斯离职的前一天，她的副手仍在不断向卫生总署施压，要求为水果味vapes开辟道路。苏西主导的议题并非健康食品、清除农药，也不是鲍比·肯尼迪竞选时的核心议题。我必须借助总统的支持，通过乔·罗根等外部倡导者来推动这些政策。
前任政府极力推动的议题包括vapes，它们是巴拉德合作伙伴的主要资金来源。还包括“加油站海洛因”——kratom。
玛格丽特·布伦南：卡痛。
卡利·米恩斯：马蒂·马卡里勇敢地对这些造成巨大危害的产品设定了低容忍限度。你相当于在加油站贩卖阿片类药物。他被排挤后，容忍限度提高了20倍，让人们仍然可以购买多种产品并产生快感，这就是该政策的直接意图。这些就是被强行推动的政策。再次强调，我们应该着眼未来，现在是新的局面，但这都是真实发生的。
玛格丽特·布伦南：前FDA局长马蒂·马卡里医生于5月辞职。熟悉他的消息人士称，原因是烟草公司的压力，要求放宽你刚才提到的水果味vapes政策，也就是电子烟。
但有指控称，特朗普总统本人因收到中期选举政治行动委员会的捐款，向FDA施压，要求为大型烟草公司制定更有利的政策，他本人知情。
卡利·米恩斯：这可能是苏西泄露的，我不知道。我看到的很多情况是，他们会迅速安排特朗普总统的会面，提出“这是重要议题”，他说几句话，然后他们就以总统优先的名义强行推行自己的优先事项。我不认为特朗普总统竞选的主要目的是帮助这些行业。
玛格丽特·布伦南：是的，他竞选时没有提出这方面的承诺，但……
卡利·米恩斯：我认为他也不想这么做，我真的这么认为。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你不认为……
卡利·米恩斯：不，我不这么认为。从……
玛格丽特·布伦南：他知情吗？
卡利·米恩斯：我不认为他担任总统是为了这些。我认为他和鲍比·肯尼迪讨论的是推进变革性的事情。我所看到的是，存在与巴拉德等公司合作的系统性努力，以帮助这些行业。这是詹姆斯·布莱尔工作中最受重视的领域，他真正主导了政策。你知道的，詹姆斯·布莱尔并不……
玛格丽特·布伦南：他是政治策略师。
卡利·米恩斯：詹姆斯·布莱尔不会找我，问我们该如何推广更多健康食品，如何为儿童提供更多健康食品，如何探讨MAHA原则？这种情况从未发生。我必须硬推，他不遗余力地推进水果味vapes行业。这就是我看到的事实。
玛格丽特·布伦南：因此，雷诺兹美国烟草公司在政府推出新烟草政策一周前，向特朗普支持的政治行动委员会捐款500万美元。
卡利·米恩斯：是的，这是苏西团队提出需要推进的重要理由之一。我没有听到关于vapes的具体讨论，但关于糖业，我确实听到明确说，我们需要糖业的资金来中期选举。当你把中期选举策略和认为中期选举资金比选民承诺更重要的信念结合起来，你就可以为任何事情找借口。
玛格丽特·布伦南：《纽约时报》报道称，烟草游说人士确实曾在特朗普总统位于佛罗里达的高尔夫俱乐部与他共进午餐，游说他给小罗伯特·F·肯尼迪打电话。
卡利·米恩斯：是的，但……
玛格丽特·布伦南：这事发生了吗？
卡利·米恩斯：我不知道。布莱恩·巴拉德参加了那次会议，我知道苏西安排了很多与布莱恩·巴拉德的会面，为了获得一个论点，让总统支持某事。我再次强调，我不认为水果味vapes或“加油站海洛因”是特朗普总统考虑或想要推行的政策。
玛格丽特·布伦南：因为存在这样的模式。特朗普第一任期内，FDA曾试图打击卡痛，也就是你说的“加油站海洛因”，也试图打击水果味vapes。当时的FDA局长斯科特·戈特利布博士离职了。
卡利·米恩斯：我说过……
玛格丽特·布伦南：但在特朗普第二任期，同样的问题再次出现。你确定总统不认可这种做法吗？
卡利·米恩斯：我确信总统意识到他与肯尼迪部长存在一代人的联盟关系。他尊重肯尼迪部长，希望大力改善儿童健康。我认为他听从了那些对待他像孩子一样、利用他的人的糟糕建议。
玛格丽特·布伦南：总统的团队把他当孩子一样对待？
卡利·米恩斯：当然。他们总是封锁他接触信息的渠道。如果他们在这些议题上和总统进行了非常简短的谈话，比如总统非常忙碌，说“行，随便吧”，然后他们就利用这一点，我一点都不会惊讶。
玛格丽特·布伦南：或者他不感兴趣。
卡利·米恩斯：是的，他们就利用这一点，好像总统想要这样。
玛格丽特·布伦南：肯尼迪部长已提名海蒂·奥弗顿博士担任下一任FDA局长。他说她极其敬业、注重细节，给所有接触的政策带来战略领导力。你指控她起草了放宽水果味vapes标准的政策。
卡利·米恩斯：我不会代表肯尼迪部长发言。海蒂·奥弗顿是我在政府中遇到的推进MAHA政策最大的阻碍，无论是健康食品，还是心理健康治疗，比如致幻剂。她是一道障碍，在我看来，她盲目听从苏西的安排。
马蒂·马卡里是她的导师。她曾在一次会议上告诉马蒂和我，如果他不批准科学上不应批准的mRNA流感疫苗，她就无法提供帮助。这是事实，马蒂离职后，部分因为vapes问题，她主导制定了放宽vapes策略。
玛格丽特·布伦南：那么，在由新幕僚长执掌的新政权下，你认为她的提名会被撤回吗？她已经在国会作证，还需要面对投票。
卡利·米恩斯：我认为海蒂·奥弗顿不应担任FDA局长，她没有相应的品格或操守。
（视频片段结束）
玛格丽特·布伦南：海蒂·奥弗顿博士的发言人对米恩斯的批评做出回应，告诉CBS新闻，两位前FDA局长持相反意见。
马蒂·马卡里博士提供了以下声明：“大型烟草公司利用他们与政府和卫生总署官员的关系，不断向我施压，要求批准吸引儿童的水果味vapes。我没有同意。卡痛/7-OH游说集团也采用了同样的策略，破坏我将这种新型‘加油站海洛因’定为非法的努力。作为FDA局长，我始终拒绝政治腐败，就像上周所有政治立场的选民所做的那样。”
我们也联系了苏西·怀尔斯，她告诉CBS，她与烟草公司在总统高尔夫俱乐部的会面无关。
针对米恩斯的指控，詹姆斯·布莱尔告诉CBS：“我根本没有特别推动调味vapes。我的职责是推动FDA按照现行联邦法律规定的程序，处理尼古丁输送设备申请的批准或驳回，即申请人应在6个月内获得批准或不批准的决定。卡利故意歪曲我的角色和责任，因为他完全反对这项议题。即使总统本人已经非常公开地表明了他对吸烟和替代吸烟的立场，并提供了明确方向，卡利就是不喜欢这一点。”
特朗普总统曾公开表示，他在第一任期内拯救了调味vapes，目的是让人们戒烟，他在第二任期内誓言要再次拯救vapes。更多背景信息和完整 transcript将在我们的网站上发布。CBS新闻将继续报道这一不断发展的事件。
（节目预告）
玛格丽特·布伦南：我们周五与候任民主党众议员南希·拉科尔进行了采访，她是退役海军中将，有六个孩子，是上周“蓝色浪潮”中在南卡罗来纳州赢回席位的议员。她曾登记为共和党人，称2016年因特朗普总统而离开该党。我们从询问她认为可以与总统合作的领域开始。
（视频片段开始）
南希·拉科尔（候任民主党众议员，南卡罗来纳州）：新国会的构成带来了很多机会。这次民主党将获得显著多数席位。有许多退伍军人当选为即将正式就任的国会议员。作为退伍军人，我们根本不在乎政治立场，只专注于完成任务。我认为这就是你将在新一届国会看到的情况。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你在竞选时表示，你的核心任务将是降低住房和医疗保健成本，废除数据中心的税收减免。这是一长串任务。你从民主党领袖那里得知新一届国会的首个议题会是什么吗？
南希·拉科尔：我上任第一天的核心任务之一就是结束这场战争，因为它推高了整个选区和全国的成本。我们还需要废除一些关税，这些关税推高了包括新建住房在内的各种成本。还有《伟大美好法案》，它有一些很好的内容，但也造成了很大损害，让住房负担更重。我希望我们不再对小费或社会保障征税，我认为这很好，但我们需要让这一政策永久化，因为目前这些政策将随本届政府结束而到期。
玛格丽特·布伦南：十分之九的选民表示，政府腐败是投票的关键或重要因素，他们将其与生活成本并列。
很可能成为议长的杰夫里领袖表示需要问责，但“美国民众不希望我们报复，他们希望我们办成事，因为生活成本太高”。
那么问责意味着什么？我们需要调查还是需要立法？
南希·拉科尔：这可能取决于具体议题。我们需要制定规则，确保当选官员不进行股票交易。这是我们看到存在大量内部信息腐败的领域之一。但我们还需要推翻《公民 united》裁决，确保从政治中清除暗钱，让众议员对选民负责，而不是对内部利益集团负责。
玛格丽特·布伦南：从你的简历来看，你将成为有史以来当选国会的最高军衔女性军官。此前从未有女性海军上将或将军任职。你曾担任海军预备役司令，直到2025年8月被赫格斯部长解职。他表示要削减20%的高级军官数量，还表示要终止平权举措或多元化、公平与包容（DEI）。你知道他为什么针对你吗？
南希·拉科尔：我不知道，2025年8月我被解职时，没有人给出理由。我认为其他将军和海军将领也没有得到理由。坦白说，现在这已经不重要了。这为我现在所做的工作打开了大门，也就是继续在国会履行我的职责。
玛格丽特·布伦南：赫格斯部长周四发布视频称，试图将他免职的行为是关于重建军队。以下是视频片段。
（视频片段开始）
皮特·赫格斯（国防部长）：多元化不是我们的力量，我们的团结才是。男性和女性不一样，但在军队中必须遵守相同的标准。有信仰的强壮年轻人值得敬佩。
（视频片段结束）
玛格丽特·布伦南：他还将跨性别者称为精神疾病。他淡化了对白人愤怒的提及，称这似乎与将军事基地改名、移除邦联将军名字有关。
在所有这些举措中，你认为对美军的影响是什么？
南希·拉科尔：我从竞选开始就说过，皮特·赫格斯是美国历史上最不合格的部长。他给我们国家造成了重大损害，让我们面临风险，严重破坏了整个军队的战备状态。他关注的是错误的事情。他应该专注于战略和战备，而不是关注这些次要的事情。
玛格丽特·布伦南：你认为什么可构成弹劾罪行？我知道本届国会正在推动弹劾。你说希望这事在你前往华盛顿前解决。
南希·拉科尔：是的，我认为可能有很多。我相信这事会在我到达前解决。我们可以谈谈这场战争对国家造成的极大损害。我们也看到委内瑞拉附近的一些事情。但实际上，腐败和缺乏战略的问题才是核心，这只会推高民众的成本。这是人们真正关心的事情，也是我到国会后想要专注的内容。
（视频片段结束）
玛格丽特·布伦南：稍后回来。
（节目预告）
玛格丽特·布伦南：今天的节目到此结束。感谢大家收看。下周同一时间再见。这里是《面对国家》，我是玛格丽特·布伦南。
（节目预告）
分类：
- 政治
Full transcript of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Nov. 8, 2026
2026-11-08T14:27:07-0500 / CBS
On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Sen. Elizabeth Warren, Democrat of Massachusetts
- Rep. French Hill, Republican of Arkansas
- Calley Means, former White House senior adviser and top adviser to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
- Rep.-elect Nancy Lacore, retired Navy vice admiral
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
*
MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: In the aftermath of Tuesday’s blue tsunami, Republicans regroup, President Trump makes a major staff change at the White House, and Democrats now face daunting challenges when it comes to getting stuff done.
Last week’s decisive repudiation of the Trump agenda now puts Democrats on the spot. The pressure is on them to fix what voters say is wrong with the country. And that Democratic to-do list is a daunting one.
(Begin VT)
JOCELYN BENSON (D-Michigan Governor-Elect): Let’s lower costs. Let’s raise our wages. Let’s end corruption.
SHERROD BROWN (D-Ohio Senator-Elect): We will fight to end these tariffs. We will end this war.
(CHEERING)
REP. CHRIS PAPPAS (D-NH) (Senator-Elect): It’s expanding access to health care and childcare, saving Social Security.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Democrats may have won a healthy majority on Capitol Hill, but not a veto-proof margin. Can the two branches of government actually work together?
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): I will get along probably with the Democrats, unless they want to be destructive. But I have to power of the veto.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will talk with two key players about the potential of bipartisanship when it comes to banking and financial legislation, Massachusetts Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren and Arkansas Congressman Republican French Hill.
At the White House, the finger-pointing over what led to the devastating defeat for the GOP intensifies, as Susie Wiles departs and Stephen Miller becomes the president’s powerful chief of staff.
We talked with former White House health policy adviser Calley Means, who’s gone public with damning accusations against Wiles and other top White House aides, saying they put special interests ahead of the MAHA agenda before the midterm elections. Did Means’ allegations lead to Wiles’ ouster?
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Was it your intention to get her removed?
CALLEY MEANS (Former White House Senior Adviser): Yes.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation.
Voters on Tuesday were loud and clear. They want action when it comes to high prices, and they want it now. How will the president handle working with the legislative branch to get that action Americans are demanding?
We will hopefully get some insights tonight, when 60 Minutes correspondent Ross Douthat’s interview with President Trump, which was taped Friday just before news of Susie Wiles’ ouster broke.
Here is a preview.
(Begin VT)
ROSS DOUTHAT: There’s a “Forbes” story that said that your net worth – maybe it’s changed with the stock market recently – but your net worth went up by $3 billion since you returned to…
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): Well, so did everyone. OK, you ready? So, here’s…
ROSS DOUTHAT: Everyone’s – my net worth did not go up by $3 billion, for the record.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, you should have had stock.
ROSS DOUTHAT: I should have…
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: You should have had stock.
ROSS DOUTHAT: I should have had stock.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Excuse me. So, I devote – I devote…
ROSS DOUTHAT: How did it go up by $3 billion?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Well, let me explain.
I devote almost no time to my net worth. I don’t care. I make – I have a lot of money, and far more than I ever thought I’d have. And I guess it’s gone up. I don’t even know. I have a son who’s a very straight, good guy.
He watches over money. I don’t even talk to him about it. He watches – he gives – they gave my money – I have a lot of cash. I have had a lot of cash long before I came in here.
ROSS DOUTHAT: Yes.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: I don’t take a salary, you know?
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you can watch that interview with President Trump on 60 Minutes tonight at 7:00 p.m.
We go now to Massachusetts Democrat Elizabeth Warren, the expected incoming Senate Banking Committee chair. And she joins us from Cambridge.
Good morning to you, Senator.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN (D-Massachusetts): Good morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you have written an outline here, an op-ed about what it’s going to look like with Democrats in the majority.
You said: “Democrats won by being populist economic fighters who are unafraid to call out corrupt politicians and corporate interests who have rigged the system at the expense of everyone else.”
That has echoes of President Trump’s populist economic message, not what he said there, of course, but certainly what he has said to voters again and again. What specific policies do you think you can work with him on?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Look, President Trump himself said that he wants to reduce interest rates on credit cards to 10 percent. I got the bill. I’m ready to go.
President Trump says he wants to do more on housing. We’re ready. We have the bills ready to go. And, besides that, we got a whole bunch more that the American people have told us that they want on price gouging, on protecting our rural hospitals, on making sure that people have access to health care.
We have a lot of work lined out that we can do. In fact, one of the best parts of this election was how many Democrats stood up and didn’t just say, I’m for the middle class. They said, here, I understand what is broken. Here are my specific plans to fix it, and I am committed to doing that.
So you end up with this situation where, in Michigan and Texas, you have got the candidates saying the same thing, break up big medicine. You end up with a situation where, in Kansas and in South Carolina, you have got the Democratic candidates saying, we love that ROAD to Housing bill, but we want to go bolder, bigger, more housing, a situation where, in North Carolina and Alaska, we have got candidates saying, hey, we need to break up the grocery monopolies and stop price gouging.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Iowa and Maine, where – where the Senate candidates there said, we’re going to shore up Social Security and make billionaires pay their fair share.
And, you know, Margaret, those may sound like lots of different pieces.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: They’re not. They’re all about economic power.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: And people have told us that’s what they want, and we have got the team to deliver now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I mean, I don’t have to tell you it’s different to campaign than it is to actually legislate.
But President Trump has said he does want to work with Democrats on a few things here, immigration, tax cuts or – cuts or – quote – “maybe certain things having to do with taxes to make it more convenient, a lot of economic development initiatives.”
Does that track with your expectations of how this White House will be able to work with you, run by Stephen Miller and, of course, President Trump?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Look, let’s be clear. The American people are the ones who’ve really set the agenda here. They’re the ones who have told us what they wanted.
And they didn’t just tell Democrats. They delivered a message to the Republicans pretty loud and clear.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: And I just follow through on what happened in the – just this last summer. We put together a bipartisan housing bill that is going to expand the supply of housing and help bring down the cost of housing…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: … and, for the first time ever in American history…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: … going to ban private equity.
Donald Trump didn’t even sign the damn thing, and yet it is now law. We have got a lot of ways to deliver for the American people, whether Donald Trump wants to be part of it or not.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because you got a veto-proof majority on that particular bill. That’s going to be perhaps more challenging.
You have said you want to bring big tech CEOs, Wall Street executives, and giant corporations who may have broken the law to face consequences. To be clear…
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … is your focus going to be legislation or is it going to be investigation?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Well, we have to do both.
But I do want to be clear. If you have been making your profits by cheating American families and scamming your investors, you better get ready for some investigations, serious ones.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who do you have in mind there when you say that?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Anyone who’s been cheating. That’s what investigations are all about.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK. So you don’t have a list of people you plan to subpoena yet, you – even though you’re going to be in this chair?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: I – it is important that we go through the steps for investigation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Because, look, the American people are just damn sick of this.
(CROSSTALK)
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: They are sick of a White House that wouldn’t enforce the laws even when they got cheated. They are sick of a White House that dropped investigations, that said, oh, if you make a nice contribution to Donald Trump’s ballroom…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: … then there won’t be any enforcement of the law when you have cheated millions of American customers.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I want…
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: That has to end.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Under – and we saw that in the polling, a concern about corruption.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Mm-hmm.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Chris Coons, who is slated to take over Senate Foreign Relations in the new Congress, has said he wants questions answered about, it appears to be Nvidia, the chipmaker, and its CEO, Jensen Huang.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: “The New York Times” says he may have had a close relationship with a spy from China. Is there anything you can tell us about that? Is AI going to be a focus for you, and specifically this tech – this chipmaker?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Well, on the chipmaker specifically, this is an issue where we have actually substantial bipartisan support in the Banking Committee.
We have got – we have got Republicans and Democrats. I’m on bipartisan bills in order to put more restraints on the ability to export our chips to China.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: In fact, we have worked on a bipartisan basis to try to stop Donald Trump from encouraging Nvidia, permitting Nvidia to send these chips to China. And now we’re seeing some of the consequences of that.
So we have got a lot of places where work needs to be done and a lot of different avenues to do it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: But the central part is going to be lowering costs for families and rooting out the corruption. It’s not a long agenda.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, one of the things Democrats promised was to end the war with Iran. There are a few more weeks left in this Republican majority.
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You sit on the Armed Services Committee. There are senators like Senators Bennet and Senator Mark Kelly who have said something to the effect of Democrats should cut off funding for White House operations in order to pressure President Trump to end the war.
There are people in the House making noise like that. I mean, what does this look like? Are we looking at cutting off all government funding? Are we looking at a government shutdown in the next few weeks?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: Look, the pressure is building to end this war.
People have told us they want us to stop the war, a war that is illegal, that is halfway around the world, that to this day the Trump administration can’t explain what their goals are and what their exit ramp looks like. They want us to stop it. They want us not to spend money over there.
They want to be able to buy gasoline and heating oil fuel, because they want this economy to work again. The way I think of this is, the wind is at our backs to end this war. We have got a lot of different tools on the table to get this done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Leverage, you mean?
SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN: But this is a democracy. And – yes.
And the American people have spoken. And it is time to listen to the American people. Democrats are ready to fight for that, and we invite the Republicans to join us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch for what that looks like.
Senator Elizabeth Warren, thank you for joining us today.
Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Republican Congressman French Hill. He is currently the chairman of the Financial Services Committee, and he joins us from Little Rock, Arkansas.
Good morning to you, Congressman.
You survived a tough race down in Arkansas, usually ruby red. You finished just over 4,000 votes ahead of your Democratic rival. What went wrong for so many other of your Republican colleagues here?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL (R-Arkansas): Well, Margaret, it’s good to be with you. It was a very complicated, tough election cycle this year.
Look, we told the American people in 2024 that we’d secure the border, we’d make our communities safer, we would lead in the world, but we also told the American people that we would continue to fight to lower costs.
And I think what we saw, no matter how many efforts that we made in the Republican House, that Americans are still concerned about the impact of 20 percent inflation that they experienced during the Biden administration, and that, while it’s down from 9 percent to 3 percent, it has not gone lower.
And that I think was a principal issue, the costs that the American people are having and experiencing and all of our families.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: So, we have more work to do there.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, costs eating into wage gains, particularly over the past six months.
But let’s talk about what’s possible now. President Trump has changed his chief of staff, as you know, Stephen Miller now in that role. Your Republican colleague Don Bacon of Nebraska said Miller is not a good choice because he’s antagonistic, he hurt Republicans during the election, saying he – quote – “took the immigration issue for President Trump from a 2-1 favorable to a 2-1 unfavorable.”
Do you agree with him? I mean, what does putting Miller in the chief’s role signal?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Well, first, I think Susie Wiles is leaving. President Trump has the right to promote Stephen Miller to be the chief.
That responsibility means that, during this 120th Congress, he will be the point person for the president in discussing policy matters with Congress.
I will tell you, though, on the immigration issue, I think we should focus on immigration reform, which I voted for twice back in 2018, to resolve the issues about how to seek asylum in this country, how we handle temporary protective services, and how we deal with children in this country that are here with legal green card holders, like our engineering community that’s across the country, as well as those who’ve come in the country illegally, but their kids are legal.
We do need to resolve it. I think it’s a place where President Trump can lead. And this is an area that Stephen Miller is keen on, which is secure the border, yes…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: … but can we now reform the immigration system and make it better for our country?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: And that will, I believe, answer the questions about the deportation issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, I understand the aspiration, but, credibly, you believe Stephen Miller can persuade Democrats and be persuaded himself to go for the kind of asylum you just spoke about?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Well, look, this is what President Trump has said for years, that, if the border was secure, he wanted to try to reform our broken immigration system.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: And that was the – an issue that came up in his first term. This is an opportunity that perhaps we could, on a bipartisan basis, find that solution in the next Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
I – there’s a lot of business for you all to get done. Your Republican colleague Thomas Massie is spearheading an effort to impeach Pete Hegseth, the secretary. There is action expected this week. Some of your colleagues, like James Comer, has said: “With a high level of confidence there’s a lot of questions about Hegseth, and Republican voters are upset.”
Should Hegseth be impeached?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Well, the question is, for the president, should he continue to serve as the secretary of war?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You’re going to be asked to answer this, though, by Representative Massie.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Yes, that’s right.
Well I want to hear the debate on it to see if it merits impeachment, versus some other disciplinary action or action by the president, if he’s not getting the job done in leading the Department of War. That’s the issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you satisfied with how the war has been handled?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: No. But, I mean, I think the commander in chief has to take the responsibility for the strategy of conducting the war and how it’s been conducted.
But I will tell you one thing. There’s nobody in America that wants Iran to have a nuclear weapon.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Of course not, right.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: This has been a goal of the United States for five decades.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Well, look at the 1990s, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well…
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: President Clinton had the opportunity to prevent North Korea from having a nuclear weapon.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: And it didn’t happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And…
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: And that’s a big issue for North Asia and for the U.S.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And CENTCOM just put out a $20 million reward offer for information about Iran’s nuclear program. So it’s clear the U.S. government doesn’t have clarity, nor has it completely obliterated the program.
But just to go back to Hegseth, do I hear you right? You don’t necessarily approve of how the war is going, but you’re undecided about whether he has committed an impeachable offense?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you open to considering impeachment?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: Right, right. Here – look – look, this is – no, this is the issue. If you don’t think he’s done a good job conducting his job, that doesn’t mean, per se, that he’s committed an impeachable offense.
He’s an executive officer of the executive branch, and if he’s not conducting his mission in the right way, then the president ought to make a change there. The question is, are we leading at the Pentagon in the right way or not the right way?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: That’s very separate from whether or not somebody’s committed an impeachable offense.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you don’t want to commit on how you will vote today.
Have you reached a conclusion on whether you will vote for Steve Scalise or Jim Jordan for Republican leader?
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: These are two excellent leaders. They both could lead the conference successfully. We have, as you know, new members.
We have about 60, 65 members of our 170 majority that have only been in Congress two years or less. And I think we need to have our family meeting and discuss it. But both Steve Scalise and Jim Jordan are fully capable of leading in the minority, and I look forward to our discussion in conference this week.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right. Well, we will see who ends up, and we look forward to seeing how you end up voting on Secretary Hegseth as well.
French Hill joining us this morning from Arkansas.
REPRESENTATIVE FRENCH HILL: You bet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Stay with us. A lot more Face the Nation when we’re back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: In last week’s midterms, nine out of 10 voters cited corruption as a crucial or major factor in their vote for Congress.
Late last week, a former Trump White House official named Calley Means made allegations of corporate influence against a handful of top Trump officials, including now former Chief of Staff Susie Wiles. His remarks were made in a podcast that dropped Friday and set off a firestorm in Washington.
Means is one of the leaders of the Make America Healthy Again, or MAHA, movement and helped form the alliance between RFK Jr. and Donald Trump in 2024. We spoke to him Saturday.
(Begin VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump has announced that Chief of Staff Susie Wiles has left the White House. The departure coincides with this resounding Republican loss in the midterms. But, also, you went public with some very specific allegations of corruption and a call to clean house.
Was it your intention to get her removed?
CALLEY MEANS (Former White House Senior Adviser): Yes.
I think President Trump has been subverted by people that are beholden to special interests and not what President Trump ran on and what voters voted for. I led the MAHA initiative at the White House. And Stephen Miller said it recently in a speech. The heart of MAHA is that we are the only primate, humans, that deal with pediatric cancer and rampant cancer rates.
And it’s obviously because of our environment. It’s because of pesticides. It’s because of that 70 percent of a child’s diet is ultra-processed food. It’s because we’re not out in the sun. It’s basic, basic stuff.
And that, I think, was really the heart of the MAHA movement and I think a heart of what President Trump ran on.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm.
CALLEY MEANS: And there’s very simple things. And Americans voted to change those things.
And I think, underneath Trump’s nose, in many cases, you had a group of former lobbyists catering to the vaping industry, catering to the ultra- processed food industry, catering to the pharmaceutical industry, catering to the pesticide industry, and doing their bidding with an excuse that we need their money for the midterms and really need to actually go against what voters said, but we need their money.
Explicitly, that’s what they said. And I think that…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-hmm. Who’s they?
CALLEY MEANS: Susie and her cohort, Susie and Richard Walters, who is actually not someone most people know, but was one of the most powerful people in the country, was the de facto chief of staff when Susie was getting cancer treatment, Walker Barrett and James Blair, a very close-knit crew, who explicitly catered to special interests, against the will of the voters.
I think a lot of this happened without Trump’s full knowledge. I don’t think President Trump fully knew that some of these advisers were taking money from the industries we ran on fighting against at the time they’re giving explicit policy advice.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Directly taking money?
CALLEY MEANS: Directly, of course, yes.
Tony Fabrizio…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is a pollster.
CALLEY MEANS: … is one of the most powerful people in the country, and every single Cabinet secretary was conniving on how to convince Tony Fabrizio of their policy positions, because any policy went through Tony Fabrizio for a political check.
He was in the White House all the time, every single week. And…
MARGARET BRENNAN: He runs an outside polling firm that the White House relies on.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes, but that’s a name. I mean, he was a – he was one of the most impactful players in White House policymaking, one of the most powerful people in the country.
He had a huge say in any policy that got done. And as he is opining on the political relevance of doing healthy food and healthy school lunches, or taking on the pesticide industry or taking on big pharma, which President Trump ran on, he was getting paid by Pfizer, by Pepsi, to this day. It’s on his Web site right now.
You can see it on the Joe Rogan podcast I just did. We pulled up his Web site. It’s advertised right now. He solicits clients right now and lists those people as his clients.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you think all of his polling is compromised?
CALLEY MEANS: I’m just stating facts. I’m just stating…
MARGARET BRENNAN: That that’s your theory that you’re putting forward.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes, I’m just stating a fact that we were trying to get a 90 percent support policy done of defining ultra-processed food.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
CALLEY MEANS: And he said, the juice isn’t worth the squeeze on this, and advised against it, while being paid by Pepsi.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We have reached out to Tony Fabrizio for comment, and not heard back.
Richard Walters told CBS News he submitted his resignation Friday. Susie Wiles told us that – quote – “The president did more for MAHA than any president before or likely any president in the future.”
We will be right back. More of our interview in the next half-hour.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation, in addition to more with Calley Means, and an interview with Democratic Congresswoman-Elect Nancy Lacore. She will be the highest-ranking female military officer to ever serve in Congress, joining what will be a record number of women veterans and women in the new Congress.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to “FACE THE NATION.”
Reaction to the announcement to Stephen Miller’s promotion has been mixed, even among a handful of Republicans. We continue our interview with former White House Adviser Calley Means.
(BEGIN VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, RFK Jr., the HHS secretary, who you’re very, very close to, said “Stephen Miller is the strongest MAHA supporter in the administration. It’s time to unleash the Kraken.”
What do you take that to mean?
CALLEY MEANS (Former White House Senior Adviser): What I take it to mean is actually an opening for Republicans and Democrats. Unleash the Kraken means doing things that matter to the American people. And when it comes to healthcare, these are completely nonpartisan things.
I mean, I spent every single day with Bobby Kennedy. As you said, probably more time with him than almost anyone. And what he says, what he pushes his team on is the exact same things that Democrats are running on. It is taking on corporate capture. It’s taking on corruption. It’s taking on big pharma incentives. It’s making our food healthier. That is what he is pushing his team to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, on that point, I hear that you believe Stephen Miller is an ally to the cause. But in terms of an – being an operator in Washington, I mean he’s radioactive to Democrats. They’re already calling for him to be fired. He was the architect of the mass deportation policy that proved very unpopular in these midterms.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why do you think he can actually help you get things done on this cause.
CALLEY MEANS: Immigration, which is not my issue –
MARGARET BRENNAN: No.
CALLEY MEANS: I will say that a lot of polls said that that was one of – like actually solving the border crisis, Stephen Miller did do that. That was a core campaign promise. That was an existential issue. He is very competent and he has dramatically reduced those numbers. So, I can speak with most authority from the mob perspective.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
CALLEY MEANS: Let’s talk about healthcare, Stephen Miller wants to get transformative things done with Bobby Kennedy and President Trump that are not partisan but structural. He wants to get the same things done that Elizabeth Warren and El-Sayed and other people are running on. And I think there is a major opportunity to come together and get some big things done, which, quite frankly, we have to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You told Joe Rogan that if you’re a special interest group you pay Susie Wiles’ daughter to get something done. What specific policy are you talking about here? What do you mean by that?
CALLEY MEANS: Margaret, everyone knows, including you, that this is how it works. They know that Continental Strategies, their revenue didn’t go from zero dollars to $30 million a year by accident.
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is a political lobbying fund.
CALLEY MEANS: They – Ballard Partners, where Susie worked, became the highest revenue generating lobbying firm in the history of human civilization. That did not happen by accident. These companies that give those firms money are not acting irrationally. Like, more people – and I encourage more people to just say the truth. President Trump said the truth during the campaign. And this culture that Susie engendered was treating the American people like they’re stupid and often, frankly, I think treating President Trump like he’s stupid.
Obviously, Continental Strategies’ revenues exploding was tied to Katie Wiles working there.
And what’s an example? The fact that Katie was seen in an anti-American, pro-Russian government, Republika Srpska, recently and then magically leaders from that country have a meeting with Susie.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You do know, though, that there’s been reporting that some of the president’s own family members have their own financial interests and businesses here. You don’t think that is compromising as well?
CALLEY MEANS: I think every question should be asked. Sure. I can’t speak to that. What I can speak to is that I have never seen President Trump has a policy inclination against going aggressive on MAHA policies. And I can also substantiate that a lot of the things that have been slowed down were done under his nose.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, after Susie Wiles left, Secretary Kennedy publicly said she brokered his partnership with Trump. And then thanked her for helping to bring in disruptive leaders into HHS. He didn’t say any of the things that you are saying here right now.
CALLEY MEANS: I feel very comfortable with what I said. I feel very comfortable with the hundreds of calls I’ve gotten from lawmakers and senior administration officials thanking me for what I’ve done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did Secretary Kennedy know you were going to go public with these allegations?
CALLEY MEANS: No.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If you look at the recent MAHA conference that was just held here in Washington –
CALLEY MEANS: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There were major corporations associated with it.
CALLEY MEANS: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Walmart. UnitedHealthcare. And then there were also companies aligned with MAHA who have money to potentially make in peptide policy changes that Secretary Kennedy has, you know, championed. There are other wellness initiatives and people who financially could benefit from some of these policies. Doesn’t that also risk compromising integrity?
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t think – I don’t think –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those are also companies set to make money.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes. Yes. I can’t speak for what an outside group does. I don’t think any American thinks of Bobby Kennedy as compromised by special interests.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Were you comfortable with that?
CALLEY MEANS: No, I don’t – I didn’t want it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All those corporations being aligned?
CALLEY MEANS: I didn’t want the framing of it. No. I – it’s not – it was not my event. I didn’t – I didn’t love that. You’re talking about one small conference and one small group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was pretty big.
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t want the optic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean the secretary spoke at it. Dr. Oz spoke at it.
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t want the – I don’t like the optic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Russell Brand, the actor, whose –
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t think any American thinks Bobby Kennedy is compromised. And I think every single corporate interest should be scrutinized.
But let’s be honest, right, supplement companies aren’t making Ballard Partners the highest revenue generating firm in the world, right? Peptide companies and compounders are not getting meetings with Ballard.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You have been in the crosshairs of some congressional Democrats who are now going to be in power in this new Congress. They’ve alleged you have your own conflicts of interest because you’ve owned between 25 to 50 million in stock in a company called True Med (ph) through November 2025. At that time I understand you had a different status. You were a special government employee. Then you became an employee, a permanent one, at the White House and some of the arrangements changed. But for those who look at that period of time, how can you address what they say are ethical issues that you had?
CALLEY MEANS: Yes. Everybody’s conflicts should be highly scrutinized. I started a company to drive medical spending to exercise and healthy food after writing a book about exercise and healthy food. Through that advocacy I met Bobby Kennedy, met the Trump administration and was put into government. I became and SGE. And as you said, fully divested that company when I decided to go in full time. We raised around (ph) before the Trump administration started.
So, I started a company to promote healthy food and exercise and fully divested that company against my economic interests to come into government.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: A spokesperson for Continental Strategies, speaking for Katie Wiles, told us that, quote, “Mr. Means’ claims regarding Continental Strategy are inaccurate and baseless,” and said the firm has, quote, “never met with Mr. Means, lobbied for glyphosate, Monsanto, Baer (ph), vapes (ph), kratom (ph) or similar policies.” Also that his allegations regarding Katie Wiles’ participation in the Srpska elections are false, as has been previously reported, they say, by other media outlets.
We’ve also reached out to Ballard Partner, plus HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy and his aides for comment, but we have not heard back.
We’ll be right back with the final part of our interview.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we’re back with the last part of our interview with Calley Means, which was taped Saturday morning.
(BEGIN VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: In a recent interview you said the administration was blocking health policies that you were trying to get passed. And you said specifically, they were doing it to take money from the sugar industry. You also talked about big tobacco. Explain that. What did you see?
CALLEY MEANS: So, last night, like yesterday, as Susie Wiles left, her deputies were still relentlessly pushing HHS to find a pathway for fruit- flavored vapes. The issues that came from Susie’s world were not healthy food, were not, you know, cleaning up pesticides, were not, you know, these core issues that Bobby Kennedy ran on. I had to steamroll any of those policies through them with President Trump’s support, you know, in using outside, you know, advocates, like Joe Rogan.
The issues that were being pushed hard in the previous regime were things like vapes, which are a huge donor to Ballard Partners. Are things like gas station heroin.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Kratom.
CALLEY MEANS: Marty Makary bravely put a high tolerance, you know, a low tolerance limit on those – on those products, which are causing devastation. You basically have opioids being sold at gas stations. He was pushed out and that tolerance limit was increased 20x so that there’s still an ability for people to, you know, buy multiple products and get high, which was the direct intention of that policy. These are the types of policies that are being pushed – were being pushed. And again, we should be looking forward. It’s a new day. But that’s just demonstrably true.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The former FDA commissioner, Dr. Marty Makary, resigned in May. And sources close to him said it was due to pressure from tobacco companies to make more available what you just said, fruit-flavored vapes. These e-cigarettes.
But there have been allegations that the president himself, Donald Trump, pressed for the FDA to allow more favorable policies for big tobacco because of donations to the political action committees for the midterms, that he himself knew.
CALLEY MEANS: I – maybe that’s leaked by Susie. I don’t know. I – what I saw a lot is that they would set up a quick meeting with President Trump. They would flag something, oh this is an important issue. He would say something and then they would jam it down, jam it down saying it’s a president’s priority for their priorities. I don’t think President Trump ran, you know, as a primary purpose to help these industries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, he didn’t run on it but –
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t – and I don’t think that’s what he wants. Honest.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don’t think –
CALLEY MEANS: No, I don’t. From –
MARGARET BRENNAN: He knew?
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t think that’s why he is serving as president. I think he talks to Bobby Kennedy about doing very transformational things. And what I know, and what I saw, is that there are systematic efforts, working with Ballard, working with these other people to help these industries. This was the single – this was the single most emphasized area for James Blair, who really led policy. You know, James Blair wasn’t –
MARGARET BRENNAN: He’s a political strategist.
CALLEY MEANS: James Blair wasn’t pushing, you know, calling me in and saying, how can we, you know, promote more healthy food. How can we get more healthy food to kids? How can we, you know, talk about this MAHA principles? That never happened. I had to – I had to bulldoze to him. He was relentless on helping the fruit-flavored vape industry. So, that’s what I saw.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, to that point. So, the tobacco company, Reynolds American, donated $5 million to a political action committee backed by Trump a week before the administration rolled out a new tobacco policy.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes, and that was a big reason why there was – that was a big argument from Susie’s team on why we need to do this. That, you know, I didn’t hear this specifically with vapes, but with the sugar industry I – you know, it was a direct conversation about how we need the sugar industry’s money for the midterm. So, you know, when you have the midterm strategy and a belief that money for the midterms is more important than voter promises, you are basically able to excuse everything.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, “The New York Times” reported that tobacco lobbyists had actually been at the president’s Florida golf course with him at lunch advocating to the president he picked up the phone and he called RFK Jr.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes, but –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did that happen?
CALLEY MEANS: I don’t know. Brian Ballard was at that meeting, and I knew that Susie set up a lot of meetings with Brian Ballard to get a talking point, that the president support something. Again, I do not think fruit- flavored vapes or gas station heroin is any percentage of what President Trump is thinking about or wants to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because there is a pattern here. It was in the first Trump administration that the FDA tried to crack down on kratom, what you’re calling gas station heroin. They also tried to crack down on fruit- flavored vapes. The FDA commissioner at that time, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, left.
CALLEY MEANS: And I said –
MARGARET BRENNAN: And yet in the second Trump administration, the very same issues are surfacing again. Are you sure the president isn’t OK with it?
CALLEY MEANS: I am – I am sure that the president is – realizes that he has a generational coalition with Secretary Kennedy. He respects Secretary Kennedy. He wants to go hard on the issue of improving health for children. I think he had severe – poor advice from people I think who treated him like a baby in my respects and used him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president’s staff treated him like a baby?
CALLEY MEANS: Of course. They would – they would block access to – and information to him all the time. I would be not surprised at all, you know, if they had very short conversations on these issues, you know, where the president is extremely busy and the president said, OK, whatever, and then they use –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Or he’s not interested.
CALLEY MEANS: Yes, then they used that. Like it’s all – it is all like the president wants this.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Secretary Kennedy has endorsed Dr. Heidi Overton to be the next FDA commissioner. He said she’s exceptionally dedicated, meticulous attention to detail, strategic leadership to every policy she touches. You accused her of writing a policy to relax standards on fruit- flavored vapes.
CALLEY MEANS: I’m not going to speak for Secretary Kennedy. Heidi Overton was the biggest block to MAHA policies I encountered in the government on healthy food, on mental health treatments, like psychedelics. She was a stone wall and she really mindlessly, in my opinion, did whatever Susie told her to do.
Marty Makary was her mentor. And she, in a meeting, told Marty and I that she couldn’t help Marty if he didn’t approve a drug that he thought scientifically should not be approved, an mRNA flu vaccine. And it’s just a factual statement that after Marty left, partly due to the vaping issue, she drove the creation of the relaxed vaping strategy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, in this new regime, with a the new chief of staff, do you think her nomination’s going to be pulled? I mean she’s already testified to Congress. She’s still got to face a vote.
CALLEY MEANS: My opinion is Heidi Overton should not be – she does not have the character or integrity to be FDA secretary – or FDA commissioner.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: A spokesman for Dr. Heidi Overton responded to Means’ criticism of her qualifications and told CBS News that two former FDA commissioners think otherwise.
Dr. Marty Makary provided us the following statement, quote, “big tobacco exploited their connections to administration and HHS officials to put repeated pressure on me to approve fruit-flavored vapes that appeal to children. I wouldn’t do it. The Kratom/7-OH lobby ran the same playbook to undermine my efforts to make this new ‘gas station heroin’ illegal. As FDA commissioner, I always rejected political corruption just as voters across the political spectrum did last week.”
Now, we did also contact Susie Wiles, who told CBS that she had nothing to do with the tobacco industry meeting with the president at his golf club.
In response to Means’ allegation, James Blair told CBS, quote, “I didn’t promote flavored vaping specifically at all. I was tasked with driving FDA to make its process for approving or denying nicotine delivery device applications work the way current federal law dictates it works, which is that applicants get a yes or not approval in six months. Calley is intentionally misrepresenting my role and my responsibility because he opposes the issue entirely. Even though the president himself has made his position on spoking and smoking alternatives known very publicly and has provided clear direction. Calley just doesn’t like it.”
Now, President Trump has publicly stated that he saved flavored vaping during his first term to get people off smoking and he vowed in his second term to save vaping again, as you can see there.
More context and a full transcript will be available on our website. CBS News will continue to report on this evolving story.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We spoke Friday with Democratic Congressman-elect Nancy Lacore, a former Navy vice admiral and a mom of six who flipped a seat in South Carolina as part of last week’s blue wave. She’s a former registered Republican who says she left the party in 2016 because of President Trump. We began by asking her what areas she thinks she could work on with the president.
(BEGIN VT)
NANCY LACORE (Rep-elect, (D) South Carolina): I see a lot of opportunities because of what the new Congress is going to look like. You know, there’s a significant majority this time. There are a lot of veterans who are now, you know, elected, you know, soon to be official congress men and women. And as veterans, we don’t really care what your political affiliation is, we just focus on achieving the mission. And I think that’s what you’re going see out of this new Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you said on the campaign trail that your mission would be bringing down the cost of housing, medical care, healthcare, getting rid of tax breaks for data centers. That’s a long to-do list. You have a sense from Democratic leaders what the first initiative will be in the new Congress?
NANCY LACORE: The things that I’m going to focus on, on day one, first of all, will be to end this war, because that has driven up costs extraordinarily high across the district and the country. We also need to look at repealing some of these tariffs that have driven up a variety of other costs, including those of building new homes. And the one big, beautiful bill. There are some great pieces to the one big, beautiful bill, but there are some very – pieces that have done a lot of damage and made things a lot more unaffordable. I’d love to talk about the fact that we’re not paying taxes on tips or Social Security, and I think that’s great, but we need to make that permanent because right now those are going to expire with the end of this administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Nine out of ten voters said government corruption was a crucial or major factor in their vote. They put it right up there with the cost of living.
Leader Jeffries, likely to be Speaker Jeffries, has said there should be accountability but, “the American people don’t want us to get even, they want us to get things done because life is too expensive.”
So, what does accountability look like? Do you need investigations or do you need legislation?
NANCY LACORE: It probably depends I think on what specifically we’re talking about. We need to put some rules in place to make sure that our elected officials are not trading stocks. That is one area that we’ve seen I think extensive corruption there with insider information. But, you know, we also need to overturn, end Citizens United and make sure that we are getting that dark money out of politics so representatives can answer to their constituents and not, you know, insider interests.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, when we look at your bio, you will be the highest ranking female military officer ever to be elected to Congress. No female admiral or general has ever served before. You were chief of the Navy Reserve until you were relieved from your position by Secretary Hegseth in August 2025. He has said he’s cutting the number of high-ranking officers by 20 percent, but he’s also said he’s ending diversity initiatives, or DEI. Do you have any idea why he targeted you?
NANCY LACORE: I don’t. you know, I was never given a reason when I was removed from my position in August 2025. I don’t think any of the other generals and admirals were ever given reasons either. And, frankly, at this point, it doesn’t really matter. You know, it opened a door for me to do what I’m doing now and continuing my service in Congress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Secretary Hegseth released a video Thursday arguing that attempts to oust him from office are about his rebuilding of the force Here’s a clip.
(BEGIN VC)
PETE HEGSETH (Defense Secretary): Diversity is not our strength. Our unity is. Men and women, they’re not the same thing, but in the military they must be held to the same standard. Strong young men who believe in something greater than themselves are admirable.
(END VC)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Went on to call being transgender a mental illness. He dismissed a reference to white rage. He said that seemed to be maybe about renaming military bases and taking confederate general names off of them.
Of all of these initiatives, what do you think the impact has been on the U.S. military?
NANCY LACORE: You know, I’ve said since I launched this campaign, Pete Hegseth is the most unqualified secretary that this nation has seen. He has caused significant damage to us as a country and put us at risk and really damaged the readiness of our entire military force. He is focused on the wrong things. He should be focused on strategy and readiness instead of these things that are down in the trenches.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, what do you think would be an impeachable offense? Because I know there is an effort underway in this Congress to do so. You’ve said you hope that gets taken care of before you come to Washington.
NANCY LACORE: Yes, I mean, I think there’s probably plenty. And I do believe that this will be handled before I get there. You know, we can talk – we can tie this war as one thing that is extremely damaging to our country. Some of the things that we saw going on down – off Venezuela as well. But really it comes back to, you know, it’s all a part of the problem with the corruption and the lack of strategy which is doing nothing but really driving up costs for people. And that’s what people really care about. And so, that’s what I want to focus on when I get to Congress.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us today. Thank you all for watching. Until next week. For “FACE THE NATION,” I’m Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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