2026-09-20T12:02:41-0400 / 哥伦比亚广播公司新闻
以下是路易斯安那州共和党参议员比尔·卡西迪的采访实录，该访谈于2026年9月20日在《与玛格丽特·布伦南面对面》节目中播出。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 我们现在邀请到了共和党参议员比尔·卡西迪。他是参议院卫生委员会主席，此刻正在路易斯安那州巴吞鲁日和我们连线。早上好，医生。有很多话题要聊。首先我想从一则引发关注的事件开始。特朗普总统周五声称，在有报道称这位与克里姆林宫有关联的亿万富翁为他儿子在巴哈马的婚礼庆典部分活动买单后，他的儿子已经向一名名叫乌马尔·克雷姆列夫的俄罗斯亿万富翁偿还了款项。小唐纳德·特朗普最初称这是一份礼物，但你来自犹他州的共和党同僚柯蒂斯参议员称这是腐败。你来自北卡罗来纳州的同僚汤姆·蒂利斯则表示这“糟糕透顶”。你认为这是腐败吗？偿还资金是否会改变这件事的性质？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 偿还资金确实会改变性质。任何时候有人送出价值25万美元的礼物，且此人与克里姆林宫关系密切，这都是——这是错误的。考虑到你与权力的接近程度，作为总统的儿子，你必须让美国民众相信华盛顿并非泥潭，即便在你看来这可能只是一份礼物，但这件事的观感实在太差了，所以我很高兴这笔钱已经被偿还。如果能有相关的验证就更好了，但这件事从一开始就不应该发生。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 首先披露这件事的是媒体——是一家名为ProPublica的媒体进行了重要报道。接下来我想谈谈你一直在关注的一个问题，也就是我们的债务。作为一个国家，我们已经背负了40万亿美元的债务。特朗普总统表示，如果共和党在即将到来的中期选举中获胜，他将向每位美国人发放5000美元。我知道财政部长表示，即便这笔钱不属于财政支出，他也不会寻求国会拨款。这难道不会引发通胀吗？这真的是个好主意吗？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 这绝对会引发通胀。如果乔·拜登提出这样的提案，保守派肯定会全力反对，我这么说是因为如果政府举债，将会推高民众的抵押贷款、车贷乃至信用卡还款利率。对于那些正努力购买首套房、为房屋再融资或是买车的家庭来说，这会让他们离目标更加遥远。我们确实需要关注国家债务问题，而且我可以告诉大家，如果我们能够控制债务，这对民众而言将是一种刺激。这将帮助他们更好地负担生活开支，这才是更好的做法。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 中期选举后会出台相关措施来控制债务吗？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 你知道，我一直在推动解决社会保障问题。而解决社会保障问题的好处是——我仍然希望本届国会能够推进这项工作——不仅能够确保向美国民众兑现已经承诺的福利，还能解决我国20%的债务问题，这也是我一直在大力推动这项工作的原因。如果我们等到六年之后——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 好的。
参议员比尔·卡西迪： ——信托基金资不抵债的时候，我的天——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错。
参议员比尔·卡西迪： ——那就太晚了。我们现在就需要行动起来。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 完全同意。我们稍后再详细讨论这个问题。参议员，我要先插播一段广告，之后再继续和比尔·卡西迪医生对话。请继续收看我们的节目。
[广告时段]
玛格丽特·布伦南： 欢迎回到《面对面》节目。我们继续和路易斯安那州共和党参议员、比尔·卡西迪医生的对话。参议员，正如我们之前提到的，你执掌卫生委员会。特朗普总统周五又就疫苗问题发表了长篇讲话，他表示将要求制药公司将儿童疫苗拆分为五剂接种。他称这将“大幅减少自闭症病例”。我们来听听他的说法。
[播放录音片段]
唐纳德·特朗普： 你需要打第一针、第二针、第三针、第四针、第五针。与其一次性给手臂接种82种或88种不同的疫苗，我们可以挑出一些让民众有些担心的疫苗。
[录音片段结束]
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你知道他指的是哪些疫苗吗？制药公司真的会按照他刚才承诺的那样去做吗？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 我不清楚。不过现在需要的是彻底的坦诚。总统应该站出来说明——他的这番话是基于什么依据？谁在给他提供建议？作为一名医生，我的看法是这样的。我前几天晚上和一位儿科医生聊过，他说家长们非常焦虑。患儿的母亲们也忧心忡忡。所以我们需要直面这种焦虑，而不是凭空提出一些可能毫无依据的说法——我完全不知道他这番话的出处，但我们应该以彻底坦诚的方式，解释你的真实想法。如果你想做到彻底坦诚，就应该说疫苗是安全的。事实已经证明它们是安全的，目前的接种方案也是为了方便家长而制定的。在任何时候，家长都可以说“我想换一种接种方式”，但我希望总统能意识到民众正在倾听他的发言。如果他不鼓励接种疫苗，那么接种疫苗的人数就会减少，如果我们谈论的是麻疹，那么就会有更多人住院甚至死亡。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 从数量上来说，他说的是增加接种针次，而不是减少，但你领导的委员会将于本周就下一任美国食品药品监督管理局局长候选人海蒂·奥弗顿医生举行听证会。几周前，他站在特朗普总统身边时，特朗普曾 falsely称麻疹疫苗会致命。你曾表示特朗普签署的更改儿童疫苗接种计划的行政令是“毫无意义的”。奥弗顿将参与与疫苗制造商相关的工作，你曾说她的参与“几乎不具备任职资格”。为什么不是直接否决？你需要从她口中听到什么才能被说服？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 我需要听到她明确表示，称麻疹疫苗会致命是荒谬的，我们需要彻底的坦诚。应该告诉总统先生：你为什么认为这种疫苗会致命？你见过因接种疫苗致死的病例吗？还有那些未接种疫苗、染病甚至死亡的人呢？顺便说一句，最近就有一名40岁和一名18岁的人因此死亡。我们应该如何对费城儿童医院新生儿重症监护室的家属说？那里有一名患有活动性麻疹的大龄儿童经过，导致ICU里的孩子暴露在病毒之下？我们应该以彻底坦诚的共同声音，帮助美国民众了解什么是安全的。如果总统称疫苗会致命，那请告诉大家你的信息来源是什么，总统先生。如果你真的没有可靠依据，为什么要冒着危及美国民众生命的风险散布这种言论？
玛格丽特·布伦南： 在本节目中，我们追问奥兹医生时，他承认疫苗并不致命，但——但没有人在镜头前承认过这一点。
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 玛格丽特——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 没错。
参议员比尔·卡西迪： ——玛格丽特，我还想指出——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 请说。
参议员比尔·卡西迪： ——总统提名的卫生部长候选人萨皮尔医生——
玛格丽特·布伦南： 是的。
参议员比尔·卡西迪： ——上周在委员会听证会上刚刚表示，疫苗并不致命，是安全的，民众应该接种疫苗。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 这能获得你的投票支持吗？如果可以，我们何时能看到她的卫生部长提名获得确认？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 她确实获得了我的投票支持，我相信她会和其他候选人一起——你知道，会有一批人选同时获得批准。但当一个人愿意坦诚地告诉美国民众疫苗是安全的，那么你就应该接种，不接种的后果甚至可能包括死亡——关于疫苗，你还能要求什么呢？
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你刚才提到宾夕法尼亚州卫生部门对费城儿童医院新生儿重症监护室婴儿暴露于病毒的担忧。婴儿要到大约12个月大时才会接种疫苗，所以这些婴儿面临着风险。疫苗教育中心主任保罗·奥菲特医生表示，美国目前严重低估了麻疹疫情。我们已经有了一位新的疾控中心主任埃丽卡·施瓦茨博士，上任约两周半。在她的首次采访中，她表示疾控中心正在制定麻疹相关死亡的定义。疾控中心真的应该把精力放在这种语言表述的细微差别上吗？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 施瓦茨医生和我已经多次沟通，在医学上，“由……引起”和“与……相关”是有区别的。宾夕法尼亚州的四例死亡病例中，有一例与麻疹相关，但验尸官并未表示麻疹是致死原因。另外三例——另外三例，一名验尸官——顺便说一句，所有相关人员都是共和党人，他们都表示这些死亡是由麻疹引起的。目前，宾夕法尼亚州向疾控中心提交记录、再到疾控中心公开这些记录之间似乎存在时间差。但宾夕法尼亚州的验尸官已经在三起不同的案件中表示，这些死亡是由麻疹引起的。玛格丽特，我再重申一遍，其中一名死者是40岁，另一名是18岁。患上麻疹并非什么无伤大雅的经历。这有点像酒后驾车。你可以喝酒、喝醉，但如果你开车，就会伤害到其他人。你可以感染麻疹，但当你开始将病毒传播给他人时，就会导致一名40岁的人死亡，一名18岁的人死亡。新生儿重症监护室里的儿童面临着风险。民众必须意识到这一点，政府也必须意识到这一点。总统应该说：“请接种疫苗。疫苗是安全且有效的。”
玛格丽特·布伦南： 你认为这会在中期选举中损害你的党派吗？
参议员比尔·卡西迪： 看看民调就知道，绝大多数为家庭做健康决策的女性都支持儿童疫苗接种。所以如果美国民众觉得目前传出的信息不利于美国民众的健康，并且让大家感到困惑，那么我可以告诉你，这很可能会损害共和党形象。
玛格丽特·布伦南： 卡西迪医生、参议员，感谢你今天抽出时间接受采访。我们今天的访谈就到这里。稍后节目马上回来。
Transcript: Sen. Bill Cassidy on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan,” Sept. 20, 2026
2026-09-20T12:02:41-0400 / CBS News
The following is the transcript of the interview with Sen. Bill Cassidy, Republican of Louisiana, that aired on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” on Sept. 20, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re joined now by Republican Senator Bill Cassidy. He is the chairman of the Health Committee, and he joins us from Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Good morning to you, Doctor. A lot to get to. I want to start first on something that grabbed our attention. President Trump claimed Friday that his son has now repaid a Russian billionaire named Umar Kremlev, after it was reported that the Kremlin-linked billionaire paid for parts of his son’s wedding celebrations in the Bahamas. Don Jr. originally called it a gift, but your Republican colleague from Utah, Senator Curtis, called it corruption. Your colleague from North Carolina, Thom Tillis, said it was “beyond bad.” Do you think it’s corruption, and does repaying the funds make a difference?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: Repaying the funds does make a difference. Anytime someone gives a $250,000 gift and they have strong ties to the Kremlin, that’s- that’s wrong. You- with that proximity to power, being the president’s son, you’ve got to give faith to the American people that Washington is not a swamp, and even though in your mind it might be a gift, the appearance of it is really bad, and so I’m glad it’s been repaid. Would be nice to have that kind of verified and no, it shouldn’t have been done in the first place.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it was the free press that brought it forward in the first place- it was a publication called ProPublica. Important reporting there. Let me ask you about an issue that I know is on your radar, and that is the debt we are in. As a country, we are 40 trillion in debt. President Trump said he’s going to pay out $5,000 to Americans if Republicans win in these upcoming midterm elections. I know the Treasury Secretary says he’ll avoid going to Congress for that money, even if it’s not fiscal spending. Is- isn’t it inflationary, and is it actually a good idea?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: It’s absolutely inflationary. If Joe Biden had proposed that, conservatives would have been all against it, and I say that because if the government borrows money, it’s going to drive up how much somebody pays for their mortgage, for their car note, perhaps for their credit card. And so, for that family struggling to buy their first home or to refinance a home or to buy a car, it becomes that much more out of reach to you. We need to actually pay attention to our national debt, and I can tell you that if we can control our debt, that will be a stimulus to somebody. That will help them be able to afford life better. That’s a better way to go.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Anything like that going to happen post-midterms to control the debt?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: Well, so as you know, I’ve been pushing to address Social Security, and the nice thing about addressing Social Security, which I would still love to do this Congress, is that- is that not only do you ensure the benefit that has been promised to the American people, but you also take care of 20% of our nation’s indebtedness, and so that’s why I’ve been so pushing for this. If we wait six years until–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: –the trust fund goes insolvent, my gosh–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: –that’s too late. We need to do it now.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Absolutely. Let’s talk more about it in a minute. I’m going to take this commercial break, Senator. And we’ll have much more with Dr. Bill Cassidy. Stay with us.
[ANNOUNCEMENTS]
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return now to our conversation with Louisiana Republican Senator and Dr. Bill Cassidy. Senator, you- as we mentioned, run the Health Committee. President Trump spoke at length on Friday again about vaccines, and he said he’s going to demand that drug companies split up kids’ vaccines into five doses. He said it will lead, quote, “to a massive reduction in autism.” Take a listen.
[START SOUND ON TAPE]
DONALD TRUMP: So you have shot one, shot two, shot three, shot four, shot five. So instead of having a massive dose of 82 or 88 different vaccines pumped into your arm, we’ll take out certain vaccines that people are a little worried about.
[END SOUND ON TAPE]
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you know what vaccines he means, or whether vaccine makers are actually going to do what he just promised?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: I don’t know that. There needs to be, though, radical honesty. Have the president come forward- what is he basing this on? Who’s giving him advice? And I approach this as a physician. I spoke to a pediatrician the other night who says that patients are so worried. Patients’ mothers are so worried. And so we need to address that worry where it is, not by coming up with stuff which may have no- I have no clue where it’s coming from, but kind of in a radically honest way, explain what you think. If you want to be radically honest, the vaccines are safe. They’ve been proven to be safe, and the current regimen has been timed to be most convenient to the parent. At any point, the parent can say, “I want something different,” but I would just ask the president to be aware that people are listening to him. If he discourages immunization, there’ll be fewer people immunized, and if we’re speaking of measles, there’ll be more people sick in the hospital or even die.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and just on the math of it all, he’s talking about more shots, adding shots rather than reducing them, but your committee holds a hearing this coming week on the nominee to be the next FDA commissioner, Dr. Heidi Overton. She was standing beside President Trump a few weeks ago when he falsely called the MMR vaccine lethal. You said it was a “nonsensical executive order” that he was signing to change the childhood vaccine schedule. She’d be involved with the vaccine makers here. You said her presence and involvement was “almost disqualifying.” Why not automatically? What do you need to hear from her to be persuaded?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: I need to hear that she understands that calling the measles vaccine lethal is absurd, and we need radical honesty. Tell us, Mr. President, why do you think this vaccine is lethal? Have you ever seen a case of lethality? And what about the people who are not vaccinated, who are getting sick and even dying? By the way, a 40-year-old and an 18-year-old most recently, and what do we say to those families in the neonatal intensive care unit at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia, where a child- an older child with active measles, walked through, exposing those children in that ICU? We should have a common voice of radical honesty of- of trying to help the American people understand what is safe. And if the president calls it lethal, then where are you getting your information, Mr. President? And if- if you really don’t have it, why are you willing to risk the lives of fellow Americans?
MARGARET BRENNAN: And on this program, Dr. Oz did admit that it was not lethal when we pressed him, but- but no one did on camera.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: And Margaret–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: –and Margaret, can I also point out–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: –that the president’s nominee for surgeon general, Dr. Saphier–
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: –just said in committee hearing last week that it’s not lethal, it is safe, and people should be vaccinated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did she earn your vote? And if so, when will we see her confirmed as surgeon general?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: So she did earn my vote, and she’ll be part of, I’m sure, the en bloc- you know, there’s a whole group of people that’ll be all approved at the same time. But when somebody is willing to be honest to the American people and say that vaccines are safe, you should be taking it, and the consequence of not can even include death- well, what else can you ask for when it comes to vaccines?
MARGARET BRENNAN: You mentioned a moment ago the concern that the Pennsylvania Department of Health has said about the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia and exposure of babies, infants in NICU. A baby’s not immunized until around 12 months of age, so these infants are at risk here. And Dr. Paul Offit, who heads the Vaccine Education Center, said the United States is severely underestimating the epidemic of measles right now. So we have had for about two-and-a-half weeks now a new CDC director, Dr. Erica Schwartz. In her very first interview, she said the CDC is working on a definition of what a measles-related death is. Is that really what the CDC should be focused on- the- the nuance around the language?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: So Dr. Schwartz and I have communicated on multiple occasions, and- and there is a difference in medicine between “caused by” and “associated with.” Of the four deaths in Pennsylvania, one was associated with measles, but the coroner did not say that measles caused the death. The other three- other three, a coroner- by the way, all Republicans have said that the deaths were caused by measles. Now, there’s apparently a lag time between the records being sent, received by CDC from- from Pennsylvania, and being posted. But the coroner in Pennsylvania has three- three different cases- have said that these deaths were caused by measles. And I’ll repeat, Margaret, one was 40 and one was 18 years old. Having measles is not a kind of victimless kind of experience. It’s a little bit like drunk driving. You- you can drive drunk. You know, you can drink and get drunk, but if you drive, you’re going to hurt other people. You can get measles, but when you start spreading it to other people, a 40-year-old dies, an 18-year-old dies. Children in a neonatal intensive care unit are at risk. People have got to realize, and the government has to realize it. The president should be saying, “Be vaccinated. It is safe and effective.”
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you think this is going to hurt your party in the midterms?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY: If you look at polling, women, who make most of the health decisions for a family, overwhelmingly support childhood immunization, and so if- if the American people feel as if there is a message coming out which is not good for the health of the United States and which is confusing people, I can tell you it probably does hurt.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Cassidy, Senator, thank you for your time today. We’ll leave it there. We’ll be right back.
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