2026-09-14T22:16:39.146Z / 美国有线电视新闻网（CNN）
蒙大拿州斯蒂文斯维尔——
我们站在蒙大拿州一条冰冷的河流中，河水没过腰际，一边咒骂着难以捉摸的鳟鱼，一边讨论他是否会参选总统。
加利福尼亚州州长加文·纽瑟姆邀请了我和我的团队前往他岳父岳母位于“大天空之乡”比特鲁特泉牧场的宅邸。我向他提出了一个我一直以来都渴望尝试的想法：一次不受当日新闻绑定的长篇专访，与受访者聊聊他们的童年、父母、人生中一些艰难时刻以及最重大的成就。
我不想在椅子上、演播室里进行这场采访，也不想化妆、打领带。我希望去到受访者觉得自在的地方。除了纽瑟姆这位民主党人之外，我还向包括副总统JD·万斯和国务卿马尔科·卢比奥在内的几位人士提出了这个想法。北卡罗来纳州共和党参议员汤姆·蒂利斯已经同意参与。
流媒体播出时间：周二：美国有线电视新闻网记者杰克·塔珀将与加利福尼亚州州长加文·纽瑟姆展开“离职状态”专访，畅谈其家庭、遗憾以及可能参与2028年总统竞选的计划。升级会员可于美国东部时间周二上午8点起通过CNN All Access观看完整报道。
尽管我的飞蝇钓技巧糟糕透顶，但我们的垂钓之旅还是颇有收获——倒不是说钓到了多少鱼（不过我们还是钓上来几条），而是收获了畅谈的机会。和一位政客一起在牧场里驾车闲逛、站在冰冷的比特鲁特河水中待上数小时，即便最八面玲珑的政客也会敞开心扉。
纽瑟姆脑中首要考虑的问题是，他是否会参加2028年的总统竞选。其中一个关键因素是其他参选者，包括他来自旧金山的民主党同僚、前副总统卡玛拉·哈里斯。
“我不知道她会不会参选，我们拭目以待，”纽瑟姆告诉我，“如果她参选，我就不会参选。”
坦白说，听到这话我十分震惊。
“我为什么要这么做？”他说道，“我不会这么对她，也不会这么对我自己……我不会浪费所有人的时间。谁需要这样呢？”
我对此无法理解。
“首先，从选举角度来说，这对其他所有人来说都是天赐之礼，”他解释道，“他们会乐在其中。这会造成相互确保摧毁式的两败俱伤，对任何更大的目标都毫无益处。如果我不是为了服务于某种更大的利益，我为什么要这么做？这完全没有任何好处可言。”
但我向他提出了反驳观点：哈里斯曾在2019年参选，甚至没能撑到2020年，之后又在2024年参选并落败。
“那确实是你可以拿来辩驳的理由，”他承认道，“事实上这是个相当不错的论点，客观上来说确实如此。但我清楚这意味着什么。我了解她的支持者基础，了解她的朋友，这两者的（维恩）图完全是重叠的……我不会这么对待民众，我不会把他们置于那样的境地……其他所有民主党人都在祈祷这样的情况发生，其他所有共和党人也都在祈祷。但这终究不会成真。”
你到底该如何决定是否要参选总统？
“我在这个竞选流程中毫无经验，所以我正在摸索，”纽瑟姆说道。我提到有些人曾希望他在2024年挑战总统乔·拜登。
“我当时还没准备好，”他说，“首先，我不会那么做。其次，即便我那么做了，也会一败涂地，因为我没有一个‘初心’。如果你的‘初心’不够坚定，那你就不配参与其中。”
“令人震惊的是，有多少总统候选人连自己的‘初心’都答不上来。真的很令人震惊，”他继续说道。他表示自己见过“过去几届选举中的领先候选人，他们参选的理由是错误的，或者干脆毫无理由，后者才是最糟糕的。所以，你必须要有足够坚定的‘初心’。”
在数十年的公共生涯之后——我们聊了方方面面：他的诵读困难症、第一段失败的婚姻、他与一位市长助手妻子的不光彩婚外情、母亲的辅助自杀、一位密友告诫他“管好自己的事”、他的州长竞选、新冠疫情带来的挑战、与总统唐纳德·特朗普的交锋，以及更多话题——他说道：“伙计，我不会再把任何事情搞砸了。我清楚人生中什么才重要。我有四个孩子，这是我人生中唯一在乎的东西。”
他表示，妻子和正在上学的孩子们必须同意他参选白宫。“如果他们不支持，那这件事就免谈。”
在潺潺流水中，纽瑟姆检查了鱼钩，然后再次抛竿，望向上游那些鱼儿不肯咬钩的迹象，并向我讲述了可能会促使他参选的信号。
“你必须顺应时代。你必须对自己坦诚。你是否代表了当下的时代精神，还是说你在浪费所有人的时间？”他说道。
“我不是来这里发表观点的。我想要带来改变，而你可以在人生中通过很多方式带来改变。”
Out of Office: Fishing with Gavin Newsom as he contemplates 2028 presidential run
2026-09-14T22:16:39.146Z / CNN
Stevensville, Montana—
We stood waist-deep in a cold Montana river, cursing at the elusive trout, and talking about whether he was going to run for president.
California Gov. Gavin Newsom had invited me and my crew to his in-laws’ spread on Bitterroot Springs Ranch in Big Sky Country. I had pitched an idea to him, one I’ve been eager to experiment with for some time: a longform interview, not tied to news of the day, talking to people about their childhoods, their parents, some of their tougher moments and biggest successes of their lives.
I didn’t want to do the interview in a chair, or a studio, or with makeup, or ties. I wanted to go where the interviewee felt comfortable. In addition to Newsom, a Democrat, I pitched the idea to a few others including Vice President JD Vance and Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Republican Sen. Thom Tillis of North Carolina has agreed to participate.
STREAMING TUESDAY:CNN’s Jake Tapper goes Out of Office with California Gov. Gavin Newsom to talk about about his family, regrets and a possible 2028 presidential run. Upgrade to watch the full report starting at 8 a.m. ET on CNN All Access.
My horrible fly-fishing form notwithstanding, our fishing trek proved fruitful — if not for fish (though we caught a couple) — for conversation. Spending hours with someone driving around a ranch and standing in the frigid Bitterroot River has a way of loosening up even the most polished politician.
Top of mind for Newsom is whether he runs for president in 2028. One of the key parts of that is who else is running, including his fellow San Francisco Democrat, former Vice President Kamala Harris.
“I don’t know if she runs, but we’ll see,” Newsom told me. “I wouldn’t run if she ran.”
Frankly, I was stunned to hear that.
“Why would I?” he said. “I wouldn’t do that to her. I wouldn’t do it to me. … I won’t waste everyone’s time. Who needs that?”
It didn’t make sense to me.
“First of all, electorally it’s a gift from God for everybody else,” he explained. “They’d enjoy the hell out of it. Mutual assured destruction. It services no greater good. Why would I do this if I wasn’t trying to serve some greater good? There would be no upside whatsoever.”
But what of the counterargument that she ran in 2019 and didn’t even make it to 2020, then she ran again in 2024 and lost, I asked him.
“That would be the case you’d make,” he acknowledged. “Pretty good one, actually. That’s objectively true. But I know what that means. I know her base of supporters, I know her friends, the (Venn) diagram on that is just pure crossover … I wouldn’t do that to people. I wouldn’t put them in that position … Every other Democrat is praying for that, and every other Republican is gonna pray for that. And that’s just not gonna happen.”
How do you even decide if you’re going to run for president?
“I have no experience in this process, so I’m going through it,” Newsom said. I noted some folks wished he had challenged President Joe Biden in 2024.
“I wasn’t ready,” he said. “First of all, I wouldn’t do that. And second, if I did, I would have gotten crushed because I didn’t have a why. You don’t have big enough why, then you don’t belong there.”
“It’s shocking how many presidential candidates can’t answer their why. Like, shocking,” he continued. He said he’d seen “leading candidates over the last few cycles that are there for the wrong reasons. Or no reason at all, which is the worst. So, you’ve got to have a big enough why.”
After decades in public life — and we talked about it all, his dyslexia, his failed first marriage, his ignominious affair with the wife of a mayoral aide, his mother’s assisted suicide, a close friend telling him he needed to get his shit together, his governor’s race, the challenges of Covid-19, his confrontations with President Donald Trump, and much more — he said, “I am not screwing anything up anymore, man. I know what matters in life. I got four kids, it’s the only thing that matters to me.”
His wife and school-aged children, he said, would have to agree to a White House run. “If they’re not on board, that’s a non-starter.”
In the flowing water, Newsom checked his hook and then cast his line again, looking upstream at the signs of the fish refusing to bite and telling me the signs that might make him run.
“You just have to meet the moment. You got to be honest with yourself. Do you represent the zeitgeist in the moment, or are you wasting everybody’s time?” he said.
“I’m not here to make a point. I want to make the difference, and you can make a difference in a lot of ways in life.”
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